Need to replace the hot water system advice needed.

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Need to replace the hot water system advice needed.

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DeepBlueSky

547 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2135126 27-Nov-2018 11:15

Thank You everyone, you have been great, and sorry for not replying for a few days had a few curve-balls to deal with including a family bereavement.

The system has totally died I'm enjoying the cold showers :( and have gained appreciation for having hot water.

So far I have been quoted $3.5k for the Tank solution installed and I don't believe this is the twin element version, and I'm getting a second guy to pop around tomorrow re the Continuous hot water using Gas he has quoted $2.5k over the phone fully installed including Gas for his side and an additional $300 he believes for running external power connection.

A number of the guys at work are saying get Gas.

Sidestep - I asked about your hybrid system and it seems it may not be in NZ I googled it RH180 etc. then looked at Rinnai NZ site could not find it.

I'll let you know how I jump but thanks again you have all been really helpful.

DeepBlueSky

547 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2137350 30-Nov-2018 15:38

Hi Guys,

Update: Going with a Rheem 27 unit; Not getting the separate controller Plumber noted you paying for something your unlikely to use water temp out of box is 55 degrees to tap the controller only lets you reduce the temp he noted most people will just regulate with the cold tap as we always have historically.

Installation is Monday I'll update once its in.

Bung

6477 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2137369 30-Nov-2018 16:19

How much is a controller for the bathroom? If you are on bottle gas it may save overall just heating to shower or bath temp rather than heating to max and adding cold.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek

#2137511 30-Nov-2018 20:37

Bung: How much is a controller for the bathroom? If you are on bottle gas it may save overall just heating to shower or bath temp rather than heating to max and adding cold.

Mostly depends on how difficult it is to run a cable between the water heater and the desired controller location.

Sidestep

1013 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2137604 1-Dec-2018 05:22

Each of our units has two controllers: A primary one in the bathroom (mounted just inside the shower) with a secondary in the other room it serviced (eg over the kitchen sink).
We replaced our shower temperature mixers with on/off volume control valves.

It worked well for our particular situation - and when the units threw codes we'd hear and see them immediately (on the controllers) rather than the water going cold and trekking outside to see them flashing on the water heater.

We set a high limit on the shower controller (so no one could accidentally burn themselves) with higher temp available in the kitchen - as I like to hand wash my good cookware in very hot water.. if you can put your hands in it, it's not hot enough is my theory..

With the units mounted as close as possible to the showers (to avoid a long run of pipe) it was easy enough to get the cable in - the controller cable's not much thicker than old fashioned phone cable -a bit thinner than network cable.

And it does look as though the RH180 isn't in NZ.

One thing I really missed about installing the instant water heaters, was that previously we'd had hot water 'Ring Mains' connected to our hot water tanks.

The (insulated) hot water circuit was part of the storage tank, with instant hot water coming from taps even at a distance from the tank.

A hybrid unit would allow us to reinstate that, and avoid the 'bursts of cold water' that Nick & I dislike (definitely a 1st world problem..)

DeepBlueSky

547 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2137607 1-Dec-2018 07:07

These Controllers are they a part I could say go to Plumbing world in the future and buy and install myself as an upgrade, are they powered by the data cable from the Rheem unit or would I need a separate power supply ?

Sidestep

1013 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2137614 1-Dec-2018 08:07

DeepBlueSky:

These Controllers are they a part I could say go to Plumbing world in the future and buy and install myself as an upgrade, are they powered by the data cable from the Rheem unit or would I need a separate power supply ?

The ones we had (Paloma) were powered from the unit - and specific to those units. One was a 'master controller' one a 'secondary' controller.

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Paul1977

5039 posts

Uber Geek

#2138453 3-Dec-2018 11:54

Our installer told us they generally only bother with the controllers in new builds.

Plus I'm not convinced they'd be that much of a cost saver anyway. If your shower does (for example) 10L/min, does it actually make a difference if it is 10L/m of warm water vs 7L/min hot + 3L/min cold water?

If the final flow rate and temperature are the same, it seems to me the gas usage would be the same as well.

nickb800

2715 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2138499 3-Dec-2018 12:19

Paul1977:
Our installer told us they generally only bother with the controllers in new builds.

Plus I'm not convinced they'd be that much of a cost saver anyway. If your shower does (for example) 10L/min, does it actually make a difference if it is 10L/m of warm water vs 7L/min hot + 3L/min cold water?

If the final flow rate and temperature are the same, it seems to me the gas usage would be the same as well.

Apparently gas heaters are more efficient at lower temperatures, so you'll use less gas making 10l of warm water than 7l of hot water (for example). If it were an electric hot water heater, then your numbers would be spot on

Tockly

346 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2138535 3-Dec-2018 12:32

We have the controller on ours and it has the Bath Fill function on it. That is a great feature just by itself. Press one button and open the hot tap and walk away. No standing there watching the bath fill. You can hear it turn off at which point I yell at the kids to get in the bath. It's great we love it.

We also had a hot tap installed next to the external unit so that, if you're like us and have a dog, we can turn the temperature down inside and use the outdoor tap to wash the dog. Much easier to wash the dog outside and they love the nice warm water.

Goosey

2829 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2138545 3-Dec-2018 12:55

pctek:

No it is NOT chlorine.

1.4million people in Auckland have had chlorine for ages without issues.

Acidic water eats out copper however.

But an '80s cylinder? It's had a good life. They don't last forever.

Replace it.

Read the news mate. Massive amount of failures and the CCC accepted that chorline levels were a bit high and brought them down a little.

Everyones homes and clothing started to smell like a swimming pool, water was harsh to drink.

From there the trigger effect on cheap materials used to manufacture HWC's and there we have it.

Ive lived in Auckland, and honestly never tasted the chorline (knew it was there), but down here...it was eaiser to drink actual swimming pool water than the tap stuff. As mentioned above the CCC started to do a better job with the mixture and flushing.

Paul1977

5039 posts

Uber Geek

#2139198 4-Dec-2018 11:59

nickb800:
Paul1977:

Our installer told us they generally only bother with the controllers in new builds.

Plus I'm not convinced they'd be that much of a cost saver anyway. If your shower does (for example) 10L/min, does it actually make a difference if it is 10L/m of warm water vs 7L/min hot + 3L/min cold water?

If the final flow rate and temperature are the same, it seems to me the gas usage would be the same as well.

Apparently gas heaters are more efficient at lower temperatures, so you'll use less gas making 10l of warm water than 7l of hot water (for example). If it were an electric hot water heater, then your numbers would be spot on

That makes sense. It would be interesting to know just how much difference it makes though.

Also, we can get better shower pressure with a mix of hot and cold than if we just had the hot open full. That might just be our pipes though? (I always turn the pressure down any way, but some people like a flesh ripping shower)

WyleECoyoteNZ

1049 posts

Uber Geek

#2139208 4-Dec-2018 12:24

I don't know if it's been mentioned before, but if you've gone to bottled gas, know\ask your provider\retailer for their delivery schedule to your area.

For example, I'm on bottled gas in Johnsonville Wellington and our delivery days are Monday and Wednesday with our provider\retailer. For a Wednesday delivery, I'll usually call on the Tuesday or order via the mobile app on the Tuesday.

kingjj

1728 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

#2139293 4-Dec-2018 15:14

Tockly:

We have the controller on ours and it has the Bath Fill function on it. That is a great feature just by itself. Press one button and open the hot tap and walk away. No standing there watching the bath fill. You can hear it turn off at which point I yell at the kids to get in the bath. It's great we love it.

We also had a hot tap installed next to the external unit so that, if you're like us and have a dog, we can turn the temperature down inside and use the outdoor tap to wash the dog. Much easier to wash the dog outside and they love the nice warm water.

Here here! Love the bath fill option, especially with under 2's. There's no guessing at the temperature, no rushing to turn off the tap when you get distracted and one happy toddler who loves pushing the button and knows that when the lady talks out of the controllers its time for her bath. Also handy for when the little one plays with the tap in the bath, with the temperature set to a safe level at the controller there's no risk of her burning herself if she chucks it on full hot before we can intercept.

I can see why you would avoid it in a refurb as it's always going to add a cost but if I were to retrofit a system I would happily pay the extra for the level of control it offers. My wife and I have a set temperature we each like in the shower, a couple of button presses before getting in and we each have our perfect shower without having to play with the mixer. A couple of button presses in the kitchen and I can sear off the top few layer's of skin when doing the dishes. And at $50-60 a month for gas (piped, inc. cook top) it is a lot more efficient then our old electric cylinder.

Hope you enjoy the new system @DeepBlueSky! Let us know how the install went

DeepBlueSky

547 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2139695 5-Dec-2018 11:13

Hi Guys,

All installed, we have the basic install minus controller we have the latest model Rheem 24, we had it powered by an extension lead until this morning, its now wired up.

General consensus (whole family) is WOW its awesome, really good flow moving from low to mains pressure we should have done this years ago.

They plumber setup the tanks with one turned off so you know when one is empty so I can put an order in and I'm going to monitor the usage with a view to adding controllers in the future.

Interesting I talked to some guys at work and receive a message when a tank runs out Rockgas who delivered our tanks removed their system for false positives as it was triggered by weight / movement and people / objects leaning on the tanks could trigger a new cylinder being delivered it happened enough times they removed the service apparently.

And finally thank you all the GeekZone family of consultants ;), you really helped.

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