Global mode over ? Lets see.....

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140 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22

#1284628 15-Apr-2015 12:01

So, putting aside the issue of copyright and Global Mode being used for watching overseas services for a sec, is the actual process and technology being employed illegal? How is it different other methods that are legal? Is it substantially different? Could not CallPlus simply change how they market the product? Remove all the marketing around tv shows, etc and simply market it as other services which offer the exact same service effectively? It seems like making this method illegal, would immediately make a whole host of similar methods illegal also.

Additional: If they go to court, or any other parties, would they be saying the tech and method is illegal or just that CallPlus sold it as a way to access that content? Even if CallPlus lost, they could just rebrand and sell it as something else, less the TV shows marketing angle?

dafman

4054 posts

Uber Geek
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Trusted

#1284639 15-Apr-2015 12:21

CrushKill: So, putting aside the issue of copyright and Global Mode being used for watching overseas services for a sec, is the actual process and technology being employed illegal? How is it different other methods that are legal? Is it substantially different? Could not CallPlus simply change how they market the product? Remove all the marketing around tv shows, etc and simply market it as other services which offer the exact same service effectively? It seems like making this method illegal, would immediately make a whole host of similar methods illegal also.

Additional: If they go to court, or any other parties, would they be saying the tech and method is illegal or just that CallPlus sold it as a way to access that content? Even if CallPlus lost, they could just rebrand and sell it as something else, less the TV shows marketing angle?

Good point, promote it as a privacy setting, nothing more?

Zeon

3926 posts

Uber Geek
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#1284642 15-Apr-2015 12:26

Meh - I'll be suggesting people just start torrenting again. How many years has the content industry trying to deal with pirates - finally a solution comes up where the media companies are paid and now they want to close it down.... for what, to support their antiquated licensing model which is irrelevant today?? they deserve the piracy.

Speedtest 2019-10-14

CrushKill

140 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22

#1284645 15-Apr-2015 12:30

dafman:
CrushKill: So, putting aside the issue of copyright and Global Mode being used for watching overseas services for a sec, is the actual process and technology being employed illegal? How is it different other methods that are legal? Is it substantially different? Could not CallPlus simply change how they market the product? Remove all the marketing around tv shows, etc and simply market it as other services which offer the exact same service effectively? It seems like making this method illegal, would immediately make a whole host of similar methods illegal also.

Additional: If they go to court, or any other parties, would they be saying the tech and method is illegal or just that CallPlus sold it as a way to access that content? Even if CallPlus lost, they could just rebrand and sell it as something else, less the TV shows marketing angle?

Good point, promote it as a privacy setting, nothing more?

That's what I was thinking about. What's the angle here? They can't be insane enough to think they can go to court and outlaw a whole slew of technologies, that many have been using for years and are legal as I understand it? Which is what would happen if they win in court. So they must be going after the 'get all this content elsewhere' way they've marketed it. OK, just have CallPlus remove all that. Everyone will know what it's for, especially now (thanks Sky for the free advertising!), but they just can't say it. It seems very strange.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1528

#1284656 15-Apr-2015 12:33

dafman:
CrushKill: So, putting aside the issue of copyright and Global Mode being used for watching overseas services for a sec, is the actual process and technology being employed illegal? How is it different other methods that are legal? Is it substantially different? Could not CallPlus simply change how they market the product? Remove all the marketing around tv shows, etc and simply market it as other services which offer the exact same service effectively? It seems like making this method illegal, would immediately make a whole host of similar methods illegal also.

Additional: If they go to court, or any other parties, would they be saying the tech and method is illegal or just that CallPlus sold it as a way to access that content? Even if CallPlus lost, they could just rebrand and sell it as something else, less the TV shows marketing angle?

Good point, promote it as a privacy setting, nothing more?

1) it doesn't do anything for privacy. It's not a VPN

2) it doesn't work like a VPN where anything from America thinks you are in America. i.e it's not generic. For it to work with a specific service, that service needs to be specifically enabled by the global mode team. So if Global mode works with Netflix, that cannot just be a byproduct of the user being apparently in America, it will be something specifically designed and implemented by Gobal mode for the purpose of accessing Netflix.

Now, if Callplus (and the others) replaced global mode with a VPN service that enables generic location changes, they could potentially do that. No way can you make VPNs illegal.

lissie

495 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 27

#1284660 15-Apr-2015 12:35

Rikkitic: I think the arguments against Global Mode are becoming very tired. I have read the Lightbox defence and it is clear that they are closely following threads like this one and are trying to do damage control. The reality is that the great unwashed masses are now aware that something like Global Mode exists, and many have also become aware that the world of media is much, much bigger than what New Zealand has to offer.

I was aware of VPNs and global mode - but this publicity made me finally get my act together and install unblock US - plus the current lfreeview line up is particularly lame

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NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1528

#1284664 15-Apr-2015 12:38

Zeon: Meh - I'll be suggesting people just start torrenting again. How many years has the content industry trying to deal with pirates - finally a solution comes up where the media companies are paid and now they want to close it down.... for what, to support their antiquated licensing model which is irrelevant today?? they deserve the piracy.

why wouldn't you suggest they switch to Unblock-us or Unotelly? they are both better than global mode anyway.

(and just to correct something. With Netflix, the studios are not getting paid any more money for the 'fake' subscribers, only Netflix is. This is because Netflix licence their content on a flat fee per region, not on a 'per subscriber' basis.
So from the studios point of view it's no different to piracy. Customers getting access to content for which nobody has paid them the rights. The fact that you are paying Netflix is irrelevant to the studios. You could be paying some dodgy russian site, or a private torrent tracker, and the effect to the studios is the same)

Similar argument can be made for BBC iplayer. It's free to UK subscribers with no ads, because people in the UK pay a licence fee. If you are accessing the iplayer and not paying the licence, then the BBC is getting nothing.

Yabanize

2351 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 583

#1284667 15-Apr-2015 12:42

Zeon: Meh - I'll be suggesting people just start torrenting again. How many years has the content industry trying to deal with pirates - finally a solution comes up where the media companies are paid and now they want to close it down.... for what, to support their antiquated licensing model which is irrelevant today?? they deserve the piracy.

Popcorntime.. Netflix style interface, has most TV shows and movies, works on lots of devices including windows,Mac,android,Chromecast and even iOS now.

CrushKill

140 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22

#1284675 15-Apr-2015 12:45

The thing that really bugs me about all this is the geo locking angle of these companies. I have no problem paying for content, but refuse to pay companies here in NZ over inflated prices, when I know I can get the exact same product, or in the case of TV and movies, even better products (HD, greater selection, etc) from a website overseas - almost certainly the people who sold the right to the NZ companies in the first place. The fact that I live here in NZ is irrelevant to me - the consumer. They are just products, like any other I can get from overseas. We can import other items, I don't see how this is any different.

We are effectively paying a middle man to see content at inflated prices, often out of date, when I could buy straight from the source. It's ridiculous. I just spend my money elsewhere instead, on other forms of entertainment. Their loss.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1528

#1284677 15-Apr-2015 12:48

Yabanize:
Zeon: Meh - I'll be suggesting people just start torrenting again. How many years has the content industry trying to deal with pirates - finally a solution comes up where the media companies are paid and now they want to close it down.... for what, to support their antiquated licensing model which is irrelevant today?? they deserve the piracy.

Popcorntime.. Netflix style interface, has most TV shows and movies, works on lots of devices including windows,Mac,android,Chromecast and even iOS now.

oo, popcorntime works on iOS now? cool. does it have Airplay support? I tried it the other day on my browser, was very glitchy for me so gave up and just straight up torrented the movie and watched it after it had fully downloaded. (only takes minutes anyway)

Nice interface though

StarBlazer

961 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 218

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#1284685 15-Apr-2015 13:00

NonprayingMantis: (and just to correct something. With Netflix, the studios are not getting paid any more money for the 'fake' subscribers, only Netflix is. This is because Netflix licence their content on a flat fee per region, not on a 'per subscriber' basis.
So from the studios point of view it's no different to piracy. Customers getting access to content for which nobody has paid them the rights. The fact that you are paying Netflix is irrelevant to the studios. You could be paying some dodgy russian site, or a private torrent tracker, and the effect to the studios is the same)

Similar argument can be made for BBC iplayer. It's free to UK subscribers with no ads, because people in the UK pay a licence fee. If you are accessing the iplayer and not paying the licence, then the BBC is getting nothing.

But Netflix is paying for the rights - this makes it totally different to some dodgy Russian site. Admittedly, they are getting no additional money for me being a subscriber but they are still technically getting something.

I agree the BBC is a different scenario, we are not paying a subscription and nor are we paying the licence fee - but then neither are the Europeans who are receiving the UK freeview satellite broadcast. With the exception of the licence fee, this is no different to any other on demand TV station across the world. Okay you have to sit through a couple of adverts showing you products that you can't buy or services that you can't use, but in reality instead of Netflix paying the broadcaster, the advertisers do - so at the end of the day they are still getting paid for the content.

If I were to download the same show the only winners are my ISP and the VPN provider I use, nobody else gets paid.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

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NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1528

#1284692 15-Apr-2015 13:14

StarBlazer:
NonprayingMantis: (and just to correct something. With Netflix, the studios are not getting paid any more money for the 'fake' subscribers, only Netflix is. This is because Netflix licence their content on a flat fee per region, not on a 'per subscriber' basis.
So from the studios point of view it's no different to piracy. Customers getting access to content for which nobody has paid them the rights. The fact that you are paying Netflix is irrelevant to the studios. You could be paying some dodgy russian site, or a private torrent tracker, and the effect to the studios is the same)

Similar argument can be made for BBC iplayer. It's free to UK subscribers with no ads, because people in the UK pay a licence fee. If you are accessing the iplayer and not paying the licence, then the BBC is getting nothing.

But Netflix is paying for the rights - this makes it totally different to some dodgy Russian site. Admittedly, they are getting no additional money for me being a subscriber but they are still technically getting something.

well not really. Netflix haven't paid for the rights to show you that content in exactly the same way as the dodgy russian site hasn't paid the studios for the rights to show you the content. Might as well say that somebody who uploads a DVD rip to pirate bay has 'paid for the rights' because they bought the original DVD.

In both cases the licence granted by the studios does not extend to showing the content to Kiwis, and so NEtflix does not have the right to show you that content.

I agree the BBC is a different scenario, we are not paying a subscription and nor are we paying the licence fee - but then neither are the Europeans who are receiving the UK freeview satellite broadcast. With the exception of the licence fee, this is no different to any other on demand TV station across the world. Okay you have to sit through a couple of adverts showing you products that you can't buy or services that you can't use, but in reality instead of Netflix paying the broadcaster, the advertisers do - so at the end of the day they are still getting paid for the content.

well, the advertisers only pay for the ads if they believe their target market is watching. By having the ads displayed to people who they know cannot buy the product, it devalues the overall advertising market, so the ad placements are worth less, so therefore the studios are getting less money.
That's quite indirect, but ultimately it comes down to the same principles.

If I were to download the same show the only winners are my ISP and the VPN provider I use, nobody else gets paid.

assuming you mean illegally download it? downloading shows is not illegal. :)

downloading the content from pirate bay is definitely illegal.
Using Netflix or BBC may, or may not, be illegal. It's probably legal, but yet to be tested in court.

But whether you use Netflix USA, BBC iplayer, or a torrent site to watch a movie or TV show, In all of those cases the studios do not get paid and you are accessing the show without having the legitimate right to access it.

If the studios are able to block global mode and stop 50,000 kiwis from using Netflix USA, and then 49,000 of those kiwis go back to piracyinstead, and the other 1k move to 'legitimate' access methods, then it's a 1k net gain for the studios because before they weren't getting money from ANY of those people and now they are getting money from some of them.

CrushKill

140 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22

#1284733 15-Apr-2015 14:03

But whether you use Netflix USA, BBC iplayer, or a torrent site to watch a movie or TV show, In all of those cases the studios do not get paid

What if the shows are produced by those companies though? They are making more and more original content - so they don't have to pay the big studio's (OitNB, House of Cards, Game of Thrones, etc). They are being paid in that case. You are paying them directly, at a lower price, without having to pay the extra tax of having to go through a middle man.

The only reason it costs more here is because it has to pass through the NZ distributor, who clips the ticket (their profit) and on sells it to us. But we know we can buy direct from the supplier and get it cheaper.

StarBlazer

961 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 218

Trusted

#1284737 15-Apr-2015 14:09

NonprayingMantis: But whether you use Netflix USA, BBC iplayer, or a torrent site to watch a movie or TV show, In all of those cases the studios do not get paid and you are accessing the show without having the legitimate right to access it.

I completely disagree with this statement - but we are both entitled to our opinion.

NonprayingMantis: If the studios are able to block global mode and stop 50,000 kiwis from using Netflix USA, and then 49,000 of those kiwis go back to piracy instead, and the other 1k move to 'legitimate' access methods, then it's a 1k net gain for the studios because before they weren't getting money from ANY of those people and now they are getting money from some of them.

But I am paying Netflix NZ, just happen to be watching Netflix US. If they block me from accessing Netflix US, then I will cancel my Netflix NZ subscription because it does not offer sufficient value for money. At the moment my subscription allows access to 7500 shows in the US compared to only 1200 in NZ that's 16% of the content. In NZ my monthly subscription allows access to around 92 episodes per cent (doesn't sound bad when you put it like that) however that's compared to nearly 577 episodes per cent which really puts it into perspective. Your analogy does not take into account NZ churn - I'm sure I'm not the only one who has signed up to Netflix NZ knowing that they can access a better catalogue using DNS. Money is paid in NZ for legitimate access, swelling the subscriber base and ability of Netflix NZ to purchase more shows. At some point in the future when Netflix support local content distribution and improve the available catalogue, users like myself will stop using a DNS.

Putting Netflix to one side because the majority of the content is back-catalogue, NZ actually needs a decent service that is providing more up-to-date content like Hulu Plus or Amazon Prime at an affordable price. The current contenders either are too expensive, don't support enough devices, poor content, 14 days to watch or restricted to only 5 devices. If NZ distributors can't up their game then they will lose completely to overseas providers. They will end up in a position of "reseller" rather than provider in the same way that Vodafone operate for their cable TV service.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

NonprayingMantis

6434 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1528

#1284739 15-Apr-2015 14:12

CrushKill:

But whether you use Netflix USA, BBC iplayer, or a torrent site to watch a movie or TV show, In all of those cases the studios do not get paid

What if the shows are produced by those companies though? They are making more and more original content - so they don't have to pay the big studio's (OitNB, House of Cards, Game of Thrones, etc). They are being paid in that case. You are paying them directly, at a lower price, without having to pay the extra tax of having to go through a middle man.

The only reason it costs more here is because it has to pass through the NZ distributor, who clips the ticket (their profit) and on sells it to us. But we know we can buy direct from the supplier and get it cheaper.

yep, thats true. (although it likely depends on whether they have given up the rights for other territories. Seems likely that they have, given they are unable to show House of Cards in NZ (for example)

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