2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

1 | ... | 1005 | 1006 | 1007 | 1008 | 1009 | 1010 | 1011 | 1012 | 1013 | 1014 | 1015 | ... | 2429

BDFL - Memuneh
80661 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 41084

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2575946 29-Sep-2020 16:02

Batman:
vexxxboy:

not sure whether to be disgusted or a little impressed about the guy who escaped from his 4th floor room by using sheets to scale down to the ground at the Ramada Hotel.

I think it's a mental health issue

Or being deported from Australia, could just be someone trying to get out before the police gets in?

Referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies

Support Geekzone by subscribing (browse ads-free), or making a one-off or recurring donation through PressPatron.

kingdragonfly

11995 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12892

Subscriber

#2575947 29-Sep-2020 16:02

wellygary: Apparently was a '501 from OZ

"The Australian Department of Home Affairs may refuse or cancel a visa if the visa applicant/holder does not pass the character test.

......Section 501 of the Migration Act 1958 lists a variety of reasons why someone may not pass the character test. Subsection(6) of section 501 has the full list of reasons, but examples include:

because the person has a substantial criminal record
because the person may represent a danger to the Australian community
because the Minister is satisfied the person is not of good character due to their past and present criminal or general conduct.
A person whose visa has been refused or cancelled by a delegate under section 501 can apply to the AAT to have this decision changed.

Section 501(3A) states that a visa must be cancelled when the visa holder has been sentenced to 12 months or more imprisonment, or has been found guilty of a sexually based crime involving a child. The visa holder must also be serving a full-time custodial sentence. This is called a mandatory cancellation."

PolicyGuy

1821 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1772

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2575988 29-Sep-2020 17:21

wellygary: Apparently was a '501 from OZ

freitasm: Or being deported from Australia, could just be someone trying to get out before the police gets in?

My thoughts exactly

Whether or not a fear of the NZ Police scooping him up and hauling him off to Paremoremo has any rational basis or not, is quite a different question, of course
🤷‍♂️

Scott3

4177 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2990

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2576005 29-Sep-2020 18:05

freitasm: Or being deported from Australia, could just be someone trying to get out before the police gets in?

If that was the case it seems unlikely they would walk back to the hotel a few hours later.

Do police have a intrest in decent portion of the 501's? They have done their time in aussie right?

mattwnz

20520 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4798

#2576010 29-Sep-2020 18:24

Oblivian:

Air Vanuatu recently come and recovered some stranded seasonal workers from lockdown period. And RNZAF returned a number.

Unfortunately seems a bit of a 1-way street currently. News other night indicated as a result Our Strawberries might be in trouble this year if they can't get people in to pick and keep demand. Similar with Tomatoes earlier in the year (seen the price recently..)

I am sure there is the labour in NZ to do this. The main problem seems to be the pay, do they even pay minimum wage?. Why not even hire schools and students to do it before school starts, or afterschool or weekend. When I was at college, the college was paid to get the students to pick fruit, and it was a way to raise funds for the school. Students got paid nothing, the money went to the school. I think it could be win win. The thing is that we need to adapt to the covid world. WE also don't want to be importing low paid workers from overseas, who also risk bringing in the virus, and each of those people will cost someone about $4k while in MIQ, when we already have that labour here in NZ

PolicyGuy

1821 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1772

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2576032 29-Sep-2020 18:56

mattwnz:

I am sure there is the labour in NZ to do this. The main problem seems to be the pay, do they even pay minimum wage?.

AIUI, the pay system is incredibly harsh.

Pickers get paid an amount per acceptable-quality strawberry picked. There is no hourly rate, this is completely piecework.

If after your day's work you have picked too few acceptable-quality strawberries to earn the Adult Minimum, then you get paid the Adult Minimum rate for the hours worked, and you get fired. "Next lucky volunteer, please"
Of course, if you pick lots of acceptable-quality strawberries, you can earn somewhat over Adult Minimum.

Just to make it clear: if the rate is $0.05/strawberry [N.B. I made that figure up], and the Adult Minimum is $18.90 [correct as from 01/04/2020], then the picker would need to pick 378 strawberries per hour to make Adult Minimum. Say they work 8 paid hours, they must pick at least 3024 strawberries in that day.
If they pick less than 3024 strawberries, they get paid $151.20 (less tax etc.) and it's "Don't come tomorrow"
If they pick more than 3024 strawberries, they get paid the piece rate, which is now guaranteed to be more than Adult Minimum

Fun, eh

😒

Geekzone

Want to support Geekzone and browse the site without the ads? Subscribe to Geekzone now (monthly, annual and lifetime options).

Scott3

4177 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2990

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2576135 29-Sep-2020 20:45

PolicyGuy:

AIUI, the pay system is incredibly harsh.

Pickers get paid an amount per acceptable-quality strawberry picked. There is no hourly rate, this is completely piecework.

If after your day's work you have picked too few acceptable-quality strawberries to earn the Adult Minimum, then you get paid the Adult Minimum rate for the hours worked, and you get fired. "Next lucky volunteer, please"
Of course, if you pick lots of acceptable-quality strawberries, you can earn somewhat over Adult Minimum.

Just to make it clear: if the rate is $0.05/strawberry [N.B. I made that figure up], and the Adult Minimum is $18.90 [correct as from 01/04/2020], then the picker would need to pick 378 strawberries per hour to make Adult Minimum. Say they work 8 paid hours, they must pick at least 3024 strawberries in that day.
If they pick less than 3024 strawberries, they get paid $151.20 (less tax etc.) and it's "Don't come tomorrow"
If they pick more than 3024 strawberries, they get paid the piece rate, which is now guaranteed to be more than Adult Minimum

Fun, eh

😒

Somebody on Reddit got their hands on a contract from one of the growers after stuff published this quote.

"Perry said the wording of the ad had led to some confusion and all employees are paid at least $19.90, regardless of how much fruit is picked. The minimum wage is $18.90."

https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/iypvnm/hey_perry_berry_farms_if_you_are_going_to_tell/

Stuff has now edited the story to reflect the actual contract terms.

But yeah, particually unattractive contract terms. Given our elevated unemployment there is no way we should be importing labor from overseas. And frankly tough luck to businesses that aren't willing to pay market rates for their labor.

Handle9

11927 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9683

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2576138 29-Sep-2020 20:50

PolicyGuy:

mattwnz:

I am sure there is the labour in NZ to do this. The main problem seems to be the pay, do they even pay minimum wage?.

AIUI, the pay system is incredibly harsh.

Pickers get paid an amount per acceptable-quality strawberry picked. There is no hourly rate, this is completely piecework.

If after your day's work you have picked too few acceptable-quality strawberries to earn the Adult Minimum, then you get paid the Adult Minimum rate for the hours worked, and you get fired. "Next lucky volunteer, please"
Of course, if you pick lots of acceptable-quality strawberries, you can earn somewhat over Adult Minimum.

Just to make it clear: if the rate is $0.05/strawberry [N.B. I made that figure up], and the Adult Minimum is $18.90 [correct as from 01/04/2020], then the picker would need to pick 378 strawberries per hour to make Adult Minimum. Say they work 8 paid hours, they must pick at least 3024 strawberries in that day.
If they pick less than 3024 strawberries, they get paid $151.20 (less tax etc.) and it's "Don't come tomorrow"
If they pick more than 3024 strawberries, they get paid the piece rate, which is now guaranteed to be more than Adult Minimum

Fun, eh

😒

Yip. These are seasonal jobs in rural areas with crap pay. Most people aren't keen on moving towns to get a job at minimum wage for 2-3 months. Equally when these workers are required they are required full time and often 6 days a week.

The only way to get the work done is with some form of itinerant labour who will accept the money and conditions.

mattwnz

20520 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4798

#2576141 29-Sep-2020 21:04

Once the wage subsidies end and some business start laying off staff, some people are going to have to take up these jobs, and I imagine these companies will have to pay more. eg at least minimum wage. IMO we shouldn't have ever been relying on low paid migrant workers to run a big part of our economy IMO. Some good may come out of Covid

Oblivian

7345 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2117

ID Verified

#2576147 29-Sep-2020 21:16

It's not hard to find articles from the previous 2 years with the average wage and expectations. And equal number of locals/kiwis snubbing it after trying for a week.

Crux is, if you can earn more in NZ than home and provide for the family. And good at it/don't need to be trained -You fit the bill and tend not to complain. https://www.picknz.co.nz/resources/rse/

Often the travel/lodgings/food to go with it. Added bonus. Where local population would drive home again. Or camp onsite (equally, kiwis snubbing that too) so not considering it good pay.

The gaps are then filled by locals who rely on seasonal work. Or travelling visitors hoping to prop up their stay. Of which thanks to covid and visas is less than previous unless you have a sponsor already.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

#2576217 29-Sep-2020 22:56

mattwnz:

Once the wage subsidies end and some business start laying off staff, some people are going to have to take up these jobs, and I imagine these companies will have to pay more. eg at least minimum wage. IMO we shouldn't have ever been relying on low paid migrant workers to run a big part of our economy IMO. Some good may come out of Covid

They do have to pay minimum wage even if the worker is on piece rates, but I don't think they guarantee hours, so if there's no picking because of weather etc, then no pay.

A bin of apples is ~450kg, bin rate is ~ <$30, you need to pick >300kg of apples an hour to make better than minimum wage.

Geekzone support

Support Geekzone with one-off or recurring donations Donate via PressPatron.

Mattnzl

282 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 70

#2576260 30-Sep-2020 07:47

Another reason why kiwi's can't make ends meet with these jobs is the travel - if you have a family at home and can't just sleep in your car near the orchard (see plenty of this around Te Puke) and have to drive say 70km round trip per day, 70x 72c/km is about $50 per day in travel. Take that away from your $151 mentioned above.... you end up earning well below minimum wage.

frankv

5705 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3666

Lifetime subscriber

#2576279 30-Sep-2020 08:30

Handle9:

The only way to get the work done is with some form of itinerant labour who will accept the money and conditions.

Well, no. The other way is to improve the pay and conditions until they are attractive to NZ workers.

1101

3141 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1143

#2576375 30-Sep-2020 10:49

frankv:

Well, no. The other way is to improve the pay and conditions until they are attractive to NZ workers.

Its a part time job.
A part time job that requires you to leave your home/rental/family for a month or so , and find somewhere else to live temporarily
if you have a familiy you still have to pay their rent & pay rent on your temp lodgings

Its low pay, backbreaking work . Thats what farm/orchid work is .
Of course most kiwis wont do it , many kiwis arnt physically capable .
And its actually skilled work. It takes a few weeks to get up to speed , untill then youre just a liability at risk of being fired .

So a lifestyle choice rather than what most would consider a job .

Senecio

2856 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3169

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2576376 30-Sep-2020 10:51

frankv:

Handle9:

The only way to get the work done is with some form of itinerant labour who will accept the money and conditions.

Well, no. The other way is to improve the pay and conditions until they are attractive to NZ workers.

If you improve the pay and conditions so as to attract NZ workers, then NZ consumers won't be able to afford the finished product.

1 | ... | 1005 | 1006 | 1007 | 1008 | 1009 | 1010 | 1011 | 1012 | 1013 | 1014 | 1015 | ... | 2429