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cokemaster
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  #2691772 12-Apr-2021 21:45
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Jase2985:

 

...

 

because there will always be some risk in working there as you cannot eliminate it short of stopping people coming back. you cant argue with that. if you want people coming back there will always be some risk involved, hence the MIQ facilities, hence the PPE, hence the SOPs and protocols etc.

 

unless the worker was having midnight encounters with someone who had covid, worksafe wont find anything and will likely be a waste of time.

 

as mentioned before about the vaccination of workers i think some people have underestimated the timeline based on a number of factors that will be addressed going forwards.

 

 

Sadly - I've had the pleasure of health and safety courses and its fairly clear cut from a HSW Act 2015 POV.

 

 

The PCBU must, so far as is reasonably practicable:

 

  • Provide and maintain a work environment, plant and systems of work that are without risks to health and safety
  • Ensure the safe use, handling and storage of plant, structures and substances
  • Provide adequate facilities at work for the welfare of workers, including ensuring access to those facilities. 
  • Provide information, training, instruction or supervision necessary to protect workers and others from risks to their health and safety
  • Monitor the health of workers and the conditions at the workplace for the purpose of preventing risk

 

 

 

Whilst you cannot completely stop the virus from 'breaking out', there would be an expectation that an employer or workplace would implement reasonable processes to minimize the probability of this occurring. This would include things like regular testing, immunizations, PPE etc.

 

I would consider immunizations and regular testing for MIQ staff to be reasonable precautions that should be undertaken.

 

 





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  #2691783 12-Apr-2021 22:16
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i have too

 

and while i agree with you, you cant force immunizations on people, and the MIQ facilities have implemented reasonable processes to minimize the probability of this occurring. As for regular testing, its suppose to be happening. i doubt thats a failing on the organizations part, more the the individuals. the testing facilities are there for them to be tested.

 

just because it doesnt look that way from where you sit doesnt mean all reasonable steps havent been taken. again it comes back to the human factor.


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  #2691792 12-Apr-2021 22:58
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They can however enforce who works at those workplaces... and in the case of having 21% staff non-immunized - could be up for discussion. 





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freitasm
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  #2691793 12-Apr-2021 23:01
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  #2691795 12-Apr-2021 23:17
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Wait what?
What this underlines is that governments around the world have been forced to frame part of their response to the global pandemic according to rules set down by giant unelected corporations.
At a time when the power of the tech giants is under the microscope as never before, that will leave many people feeling uncomfortable.


Did he just complain about “tech giants” enforcing privacy?




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  #2691796 12-Apr-2021 23:22
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Batman:
Fred99:

<sigh>


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/124810379/healthcare-workers-unmasked-train-journey-made-passenger-uncomfortable


 



Ahh is that one of the managers that got vaccinated ahead of miq workers
Irrelevant. Even if you’ve had the jab you can still spread the virus.




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cokemaster
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  #2691797 12-Apr-2021 23:24
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I guess its a kinda a moot point with NZ and its decreasing scan rates but we really, really want to avoid something like this https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55541001 occurring. It will only further undermine the need for scanning when folks are worrying about 'big government'.





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  #2691811 13-Apr-2021 03:13
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sbiddle:

Handle9:


This thing has been made up as it's gone along. CERA is the closest thing that NZ has had to this and there were similar problems, and in some cases far worse.


It is absolutely inevitable that there will be big mistakes - no one has done this sort of thing for this long before.


You literally have no idea what performance management is or isn't happening - you do not, and will never, know as that is private.



Sure things are being made up as they go along.. And sure mistakes will happen. The problem is that there are simply far too many loopholes in our systems that you simply can't put down to mistakes or learning as we go along.


We don't even have official records showing when the MIQ worker was last tested. Why? Because we don't actually a have a register that stores all of this, and Hipkins said on Friday we'll now be starting one. How can anybody with any intelligence developing these processes seriously not think that keeping track of tests and the results for all border workers is not important?


 



I don't really have too many problems with the mistakes. Some are absolutely boneheaded but on the balance of the evidence NZ has done very well. There's been some really good decisions and a bit of luck, good and bad.

I do have a problem with the obfuscation and spin. It's nonsense really.

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  #2691857 13-Apr-2021 06:37
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It's very hard to to discuss this without spilling over into the politics thread. But we have a bit of an issue where people give assurances or project confidentially that things are under a certain level control, only for it to eventuate that not only are they not under control, but that the person giving said assurances can't have possibly had access to information to make that call.

 

This is not the first time we've had this "Everything's tickety-boo, border testing regime working fine" discussion where it turns out that everything is not, in fact, tickety-boo at all. 


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  #2691863 13-Apr-2021 07:17
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GV27:

 

This is not the first time we've had this "Everything's tickety-boo, border testing regime working fine" discussion where it turns out that everything is not, in fact, tickety-boo at all. 

 

 

Professor Des Gorman just nailed it during his interview this morning. Basically we've become so cocky thinking we're the best in the world that we've lost all oversight. His summary that he's surprised Aussie want a bubble with us when it's clear how bad we are should be hitting home but I doubt it will.

 

As much as I don't like using the word disinformation it's pretty clear we've now reached the point where you simply cannot believe anything said by officials here. We are consistently being told things are fine, but now every day find out something else that's not fine.

 

I'll go back to my comments days ago that somebody needs to be accountable for this mess and that somebody's head needs to be gone - the fact we don't even know when the security guard was last tested because we don't even have a register that records tests is just simple incompetence, and if the Govt have never asked simple questions like whether such a testing register ever existed then we clearly need to be looking at the competence of ministers overseeing our Covid response.

 

 


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  #2691873 13-Apr-2021 07:32
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At this point I'm just more concerned about the bus trips that came out last night. We've had transmission on buses here before, with less infectious variants. 


 
 
 
 

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  #2691876 13-Apr-2021 07:47
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GV27:

 

At this point I'm just more concerned about the bus trips that came out last night. We've had transmission on buses here before, with less infectious variants. 

 

 

I still don't know why contacts are only being called casual contacts and not casual plus contacts which is what they are if you're following MoH guidelines. It's much like the fact these cases are now "border cases" which is what all MIQ cases are and not community cases which is what they are if you're following MoH guidelines.

 

Hopefully they were wearing masks on the bus which I don't recall being a requirement last time we had spread on the bus.

 

We've just fired the Russian roulette revolver for the 6th time and should be dead right now but somehow aren't.

 

 


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  #2691877 13-Apr-2021 07:53
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sbiddle:

 

Hopefully they were wearing masks on the bus which I don't recall being a requirement last time we had spread on the bus.

 

We've just fired the Russian roulette revolver for the 6th time and should be dead right now but somehow aren't.

 

 

From memory it was the August outbreak where we had transmission on inner-city buses but many were already wearing masks by that point.

 

I agree though, it's incredible just how often we continue to be this lucky. Northland/North Auckland, South Auckland... and these are just the ones we are finding.

 

I think Michael Baker suggested these incursions are probably happening more often than we realise. 


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  #2691880 13-Apr-2021 08:03
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It probably just does demonstrate one thing - that not everybody who contracts Covid is a super spreader, or even spreads the virus. That in itself is a potentially something very positive when we look forward to the completion of vaccine rollouts when we start have pockets of endemic Covid in the community here.

 

 

 

 


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  #2691902 13-Apr-2021 09:36
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Great read here about aerosol spread and why every ignored it in the early days instead focusing on surface spread and thinking that washing hands was the cure..

 

The Gaslighting of Science - Insight (substack.com)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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