2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2736350 29-Jun-2021 15:43

sen8or:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/300344785/its-despicable-kiwis-stranded-in-australia-call-on-government-to-help-them-get-home

Got to love how on one hand, they say "we accept the risk of travelling in the bubble" then in the very same breath complain that the Govt isn't helping them.

Travel to Aus (and I assume the Cooks now) always was at the travellers own risk, the Govt were clear on the fact that if you got caught out o/seas, you have to be prepared for that, but good old Stuff, giving print / web space to the bleeding heart stories about people caught in Aus.

Then there's the snowflake mentioned in this article - didn't know she could be kept in isolation longer. What rock has she been lying under all this time? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-156-returnees-have-miq-stay-extended-after-two-contract-infection-during-quarantine/NQDPOSTTBDQUYEVYIF6HWD2EI4/

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DS248

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#2736363 29-Jun-2021 16:00

sbiddle:

mouarg:

...

What about travel to VIC from NZ? Has the bubble been opened in that direction? Thanks

The bubble was never suspended flying to Australia - airlines have still been flying every day. They just can't bring people back from Australia.

And even if it had, re-opening travel into AU would not be an NZ decision or for Hipkins to announce.

tehgerbil

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#2736367 29-Jun-2021 16:02

Hypothetically if your work was paying for you to travel in the week after next to Melbourne would any of you still go or would it be way too high risk you'd be stuck there or Q on arrival?

Thoughts please?

richms

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#2736368 29-Jun-2021 16:04

tehgerbil:

Hypothetically if your work was paying for you to travel in the week after next to Melbourne would any of you still go or would it be way too high risk you'd be stuck there or Q on arrival?

Thoughts please?

Depends if work is prepared to keep paying and cover any isolation costs that result.

Richard rich.ms

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#2736369 29-Jun-2021 16:06

tehgerbil:

Hypothetically if your work was paying for you to travel in the week after next to Melbourne would any of you still go or would it be way too high risk you'd be stuck there or Q on arrival?

Thoughts please?

That's a Q for the TT thread.

But I would be asking for worst case clarification and agreement on what-ifs. If you get stuck or need to go MiQ. Will they cover it. Will they take it out of your Holidays. Will they consider the role 'important' enough to hold. the position rather than use as an out.

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#2736374 29-Jun-2021 16:14

tehgerbil:

Hypothetically if your work was paying for you to travel in the week after next to Melbourne would any of you still go or would it be way too high risk you'd be stuck there or Q on arrival?

Thoughts please?

If you are travelling FOR work, then its all on work's dime.... .

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Batman

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#2736375 29-Jun-2021 16:15

Handle9:
Batman:

best T cell response AZ first the Pfizer.

now where are our AZ supply ...

Go and read the article again.

The Com-Cov study, which looked at giving the doses four weeks apart in 850 volunteers aged 50 and above, found:

AZ followed by Pfizer induced higher antibodies and T cell responses than Pfizer followed by AZ
Both of these mixes induced higher antibodies than two doses of AZ
The highest antibody response was seen after two doses of Pfizer, and the highest T cell response from AZ followed by Pfizer

Scott3

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#2736388 29-Jun-2021 16:50

I'm very surprised about the "In principal" decision to reopen travel from multiple states in Australia.

Given the virus has jumped many state borders with ease so far, this seems quite risky. And the risk is further compounded by our lack of an effective tool to stop those who have recently traveled from another state from boarding a flight to NZ.

That said, pre-departure testing is a good move. I would stack with on arrival testing as well. And would be tempted to go a little further and require a day 6 test (or departure test for those staying less than 6 days) as well, as a condition of isolation free travel. (And a fairly hefty penalty like a $2000 fine or a week in prison for those that don't provide their 1 week sample).

tdgeek:

wellygary:

Yeah, there was already trouble getting those under 60 who had one dose to return for the follow up so I don't hold out much hope of a huge take up...

They can't fully ramp up their Pfizer rollout until October...

i'm expecting plenty of "reporting" on the million pfizer shots as they arrive in NZ in July, - its pretty much the only "good-ish" news the Govt will have.. -

Many parts of the world we like to compare ourselves to are well through vaccinations and are looking lower border restrictions.

NZ is going to be late to that party... but the question will be how late...

Yes but how can we improve this? Can we demand Pfizer complete all of our orders in July instead of the current schedule they have given us? Why have others got more vaccines than us? Because those vaccines are actively saving lives

Could we buy up the crappy vaccines and just use them?

We can't really improve this. Current situation is that we will have 300k - 500k doses a week start turning up in mid to late July. Based on the "1m doses in July comment, this could be as little as two weeks away. With that sort of dose supply, the it is likely our capacity to administer the doses will become the constraint, rather than supply.

Having 8.5m doses of what I regard as the best vaccine in the world, turning up over a 2.5 - 3 month period from about 2 weeks time is a pretty good spot to be in. Basically no change of scrambling anything better. (Even of the 10M AZ doses we ordered were available for fast dispatch... There optimal 12 week inter dose spacing, and low single dose effectiveness against the delta strain (30%) don't make this a great option for the sale of two weeks.)

The above is a key reason I am surprised the travel bubble is re-opening. Politically the government is in a tough spot right now. Any community outbreak and the public will be really pissed about low vaccination numbers etc. In a months time when we are vaccinating 300k+ doses a week, any outbreak won't be as bad politically.

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#2736389 29-Jun-2021 16:52

Scott3:

I'm very surprised about the "In principal" decision to reopen travel from multiple states in Australia.

/pedantic:

"In principle"

/end pedantic

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#2736418 29-Jun-2021 17:58

tehgerbil:

Hypothetically if your work was paying for you to travel in the week after next to Melbourne would any of you still go or would it be way too high risk you'd be stuck there or Q on arrival?

Thoughts please?

In Covid terms you're basically asking about what travel will be like several years from now. Right now I don't think anybody can answer that question!

I was planning to to go Melbourne on Thursday for my birthday and would have still gone had it been possible.

You're not going to have to quarantine on arrival - for Victoria to do that it would mean there is CT in New Zealand. Your risks are a) being stuck there if there is CT, and b) that you're potentially (and once again you're talking weeks away so anything could change) have to arrange testing and be tested before coming back to NZ.

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#2736422 29-Jun-2021 18:11

sbiddle:

In Covid terms you're basically asking about what travel will be like several years from now. Right now I don't think anybody can answer that question!

I was planning to to go Melbourne on Thursday for my birthday and would have still gone had it been possible.

You're not going to have to quarantine on arrival - for Victoria to do that it would mean there is CT in New Zealand. Your risks are a) being stuck there if there is CT, and b) that you're potentially (and once again you're talking weeks away so anything could change) have to arrange testing and be tested before coming back to NZ.

You: I might not be able to return when I need to so regrettably I will have to put off the trip.

Snowflake: Whee! I can fly to Melbourne!

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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Technofreak

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#2736426 29-Jun-2021 18:50

tehgerbil:

Hypothetically if your work was paying for you to travel in the week after next to Melbourne would any of you still go or would it be way too high risk you'd be stuck there or Q on arrival?

Thoughts please?

This scenario could apply to me.

If work is paying then I guess you're going because your employer needs you too. If that's the case then I'd expect the employer to be prepared for your return being disrupted and also be prepared to cover the costs as well as paying your wages.

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PolicyGuy

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#2736428 29-Jun-2021 18:54

sbiddle:

Fred99:

wellygary: "The 72 hour negative test will probably slow down leisure travel bookings"

the 72 hour test probably wouldn't have picked up the case we had before he flew to Wgtn.

It wouldn't have "probably not" picked up his infection, it wouldn't have picked up his infection. He would have flown to Wellington after presenting a negative test at check-in.

From a comment I saw elsewhere it seems he most likely became infected at work on the Thursday. Assuming somebody was flying on the Friday afternoon you would need to be tested on Wednesday to guarantee getting the result back before travel.

This

The only pre-departure test that would be any use is a saliva-based Rapid Test, carried out at the airport before the passenger checks in.
This swab test that might be three days old by the time the passenger gets to board the aircraft is pretty much just health security theatre.

ezbee

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#2736430 29-Jun-2021 18:58

Rapid Tests...
Are we expecting too much from them ?
Its not one standard performance test, but a whole variety of tests of various cost and performance, still evolving.
Missing early stage to catch people early, and missing late stage for contact tracing.

Rapid coronavirus tests: a guide for the perplexed
Scientists still debate whether millions of cheap, fast diagnostic kits will help control the pandemic. Here’s why.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00332-4

""
It’s hard to get reliable information on rapid tests because — at least in Europe — the products can be sold solely on the basis of manufacturer data, without independent evaluation. There are no standard protocols for measuring performance, making it hard to compare assays and forcing each country to do its own validation.
""
However the details shake out, Deeks says that a December trial at the University of Birmingham is an example of how rapid tests can miss infections. More than 7,000 symptom-free students there took an Innova test; only 2 tested positive. But when the university researchers rechecked 10% of the negative samples using PCR, they found another 6 infected students. Scaling that up across all the samples, the test probably missed 60 infected student
""

sbiddle

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#2736435 29-Jun-2021 19:07

ezbee:

""
It’s hard to get reliable information on rapid tests because — at least in Europe — the products can be sold solely on the basis of manufacturer data, without independent evaluation. There are no standard protocols for measuring performance, making it hard to compare assays and forcing each country to do its own validation.
""
However the details shake out, Deeks says that a December trial at the University of Birmingham is an example of how rapid tests can miss infections. More than 7,000 symptom-free students there took an Innova test; only 2 tested positive. But when the university researchers rechecked 10% of the negative samples using PCR, they found another 6 infected students. Scaling that up across all the samples, the test probably missed 60 infected student
""

In defence of rapid testing it's not 100% (and no manufacturer claims it to be) but tests done in December is with kits that are now several generations old. That's almost half a pandemic ago!

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