2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

1 | ... | 1757 | 1758 | 1759 | 1760 | 1761 | 1762 | 1763 | 1764 | 1765 | 1766 | 1767 | ... | 2422

7296 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2781611 21-Sep-2021 11:59

networkn:

I saw something from someone I trust in FB last night where his BIL was saying he wouldn't get that poison injected. The guy I know offered him a Box of Woodys in exchange for the vaccination 1 and 2 and he went today to have his first.

To be perfectly honest, financially incentivizing people is reasonably effective and much cheaper than lockdowns.

In limited cases, sure. Some might jump at it with something less than cash. But likely it's not actually a good broad fix with our 'but what about me' lifestyle in kiwiland. With the mixed reactions we have to people now where the incentive of sickness or death isn't even enough.

But for the likes of the multi trillion dollar stimulus packages sent out in the US. Pear-shaped. It was right before July4. Guess what most of it was spent on.. They had some of the largest and most extreme fireworks gathering and parties seen in years and spikes in cases. And little movement in encouraging people to front up or boost the economy like it was intended for.

I imagine crowds of people here lining up for it. And it going straight down the road to the bottlestore to get some of them Woodys instead :)

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2781615 21-Sep-2021 12:08

Lately a saying has been cropping up, 'don't let perfect be the enemy of good'. I think too many people get hung up on principle. Paying anti-social types to do something positive for the benefit of all probably won't work with everyone all of the time, but it probably will work for some people and that is where the focus should lie. Quit worrying about those who will always try to game the system, and concentrate on those who can be selfishly persuaded with the right incentives. If that means letting a few dicks take unfair advantage, then so be it.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Oblivian

7296 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2781623 21-Sep-2021 12:39

Rikkitic:

Quit worrying about those who will always try to game the system, and concentrate on those who can be selfishly persuaded with the right incentives. If that means letting a few dicks take unfair advantage, then so be it.

Issue being, neither you nor I can gauge what 'a few' is on either side this far into the program. But as it stands now, certainly don't really want to be now seen offering people incentives you and I ultimately will pay for in years to come, unless the outcome can actually be calculated as being positive. Or assured the same demands won't come from, and be bowed down to for future programs.

But it can't be. How can you be assured turning a blind eye to exploiters WILL shift in our favor when even in isolated cases of them doing so, creates divide.

Exhibit a. Regarding people believed to be charging $100 up front door to door to bring a non existent jab to the remaining ones left to mop up. And many similar views that went with it.

"wouldn't put it past them at all...maybe not the fee but wouldn't be at all surprised if they started door knocking to ensure their vaccination role out went to plan...evwr heard of buses being sent out for any other immunisations? Ever hear of incentives like free groceries, food vouchers, trips to rarotonga etc if you go and get the vaccination? Somethings not right with that picture..."

Referring to https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/covid-19-nz-town-offering-vouchers-ipads-for-getting-pfizer-jab-in-bid-to-boost-m-ori-vaccination-rates.html

clinty

1182 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2781636 21-Sep-2021 13:17

frankv:

According to last night's news, he was thought to have caught it off the security guards who transported him. And, interestingly, those security guards have been stood down, so I'm guessing they did something untoward. Stopped off at a tinny house???

To clarify - He was not transported home by security guards, but by an court approved, designated person (family member or friend) although reports suggest there may have been more than one person in the vehicle

The security guards that have been stood down are the ones who transported him from police holding to the court on Friday, and then to the remand prison, where he tested positive. They have been stood down as a prescuation, as have court workers and police that may have come in contact with him.

Clint

Oblivian

7296 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2781640 21-Sep-2021 13:23

Tight lipped

'broadly described as a workplace'

Could be prison, gang pad, family owned shop. Dealer

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2781641 21-Sep-2021 13:27

Oblivian: Tight lipped

'broadly described as a workplace'

Could be prison, gang pad, family owned shop. Dealer

And she said irregardless of it being infected from someone in the car, seemed a bit of a slip up there, sounded more conclusive than a possibility. Seems that the family member(s) was from AKL, infected, picked him up and went back from what Ive read/picked up

DS248

1691 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2781676 21-Sep-2021 14:06

networkn:

I saw something from someone I trust in FB last night where his BIL was saying he wouldn't get that poison injected. The guy I know offered him a Box of Woodys in exchange for the vaccination 1 and 2 and he went today to have his first.

To be perfectly honest, financially incentivizing people is reasonably effective and much cheaper than lockdowns.

(Slightly OT!)

Reminds me of when many decades ago fresh out of uni, I was carrying out a soil survey as part of scoping investigations for the Ok Tedi copper mine access road in remote central Papua New Guinea. A satellite work party of just me, a primary school educated assistant from Moresby, and ~20 local villagers. Weekly pay for the locals included allowances of tobacco sticks (+ old newspaper to make cigarettes), soap, and skin lotion, all of which we carried in bulk with us.

About half way along we came to a river with a small village high on the opposite bank. Used only for ceremonies, but it was occupied. The locals with me were from villages 30-40 km further down the line and were not wantok (one-talk) with those across the river. While setting up camp for the evening, a deputation of guys from my party came to inform me of the situation and that we would not be allowed to cross the river until after the ceremonies were over and the villagers had departed, which would be in about 4 days. As a naive young graduate only on the job a month or two, I tried for a day or so to convince my locals to convince the villagers to let us pass straight through and continue working beyond the village. All to no avail. And it became clear the locals with me were genuinely in fear. Having failed, I radioed back to base camp for help.

An hour or so later, at the cost of just half a ~10(?) kg box of tobacco sticks, we passed through the village with nil antagonism from the half dozen or so in the village. Even one or two smiles.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2781677 21-Sep-2021 14:06

networkn:

I saw something from someone I trust in FB last night where his BIL was saying he wouldn't get that poison injected. The guy I know offered him a Box of Woodys in exchange for the vaccination 1 and 2 and he went today to have his first.

To be perfectly honest, financially incentivizing people is reasonably effective and much cheaper than lockdowns.

Given we are in the final grind to get 1st doses in arms, I don't really see the problem with such an approach,

Looking at the numbers, the vax+booked numbers are only increasing by about 10K a day, ( There are fewer than 200K ppl who are booked for a 1st dose and haven't had one yet)... so at the current vax rates there will be no waiting list for 1st vaxes in 2 weeks...

To get to 90% eligible we need to vax another 500K people.... ( and even that is only 74% of total pop)... - Although the early results for 5-11 vaccinations is looking good, so perhaps that will be the early 2022 project.... )

There are ~300K 0-4s so that would make the eligible pop around 4.8 million, if we got to 90% (stretch target) we would get ~85% of total pop vaccinated...

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2781681 21-Sep-2021 14:08

Oblivian:

Issue being, neither you nor I can gauge what 'a few' is on either side this far into the program. But as it stands now, certainly don't really want to be now seen offering people incentives you and I ultimately will pay for in years to come, unless the outcome can actually be calculated as being positive. Or assured the same demands won't come from, and be bowed down to for future programs.

But it can't be. How can you be assured turning a blind eye to exploiters WILL shift in our favor when even in isolated cases of them doing so, creates divide.

Exhibit a. Regarding people believed to be charging $100 up front door to door to bring a non existent jab to the remaining ones left to mop up. And many similar views that went with it.

"wouldn't put it past them at all...maybe not the fee but wouldn't be at all surprised if they started door knocking to ensure their vaccination role out went to plan...evwr heard of buses being sent out for any other immunisations? Ever hear of incentives like free groceries, food vouchers, trips to rarotonga etc if you go and get the vaccination? Somethings not right with that picture..."

Referring to https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/08/covid-19-nz-town-offering-vouchers-ipads-for-getting-pfizer-jab-in-bid-to-boost-m-ori-vaccination-rates.html

In other words, do nothing because you can't be sure that doing something will work the way you want it to? I don't quite see the logic of that.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Oblivian

7296 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2781697 21-Sep-2021 14:32

Rikkitic:

In other words, do nothing because you can't be sure that doing something will work the way you want it to? I don't quite see the logic of that.

Sigh.

Fine. Go ahead. Charge forward. I also want my backdated payment for getting my jabs. As will my neighbor. As will my workmates. And for my flu jab next year too thanks. Or I may 'forget' to and wait till I'm in the last push.

Stand outside a KFC offering it and upset some people into calling it profiling is one thing. Handing out cash is another. Recall the un-paid-back exploits of actual 'GOOD' people last year with the response fund.. That bill is still outstanding on all of us. Too. But go ahead, tick up some more because there are people who need to be pursuaded.

Also, You realise that's the exact stand you take regarding upgrading hardware, software and devices, right?.

Scott3

3963 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2781704 21-Sep-2021 14:45

Our world in data (which has slightly favorable NZ population number), Has us as having passed the USA for first doses, and fast closing in on the EU and Israel.

We have been hitting vaccination out of the park over the last month.

And from the 1pm press conference we know that Auckland (objectively the area of most concern) is slightly ahead of the country overall on first doses. (77% of eligible if I recall correctly vs 74% for the nation overall). Government has a stretch goal for Auckland of 90% of eligible by the time that our level 3 status is reviewed in just under two weeks.

We are seeing signs that we are starting to the hard bit of the vaccination program in terms of getting first doses into people. Yesterday Second doses passed first doses (25,674 vs 24,522), which I can't recall having recently. Hopefully all the government effort will have us at least approaching that stretch goal.

If the decision to go to level 3 tonight does lead to increasing case numbers, (possibly with daily cases topping 1000 in November / December), Our vaccination level is going to be super important.

We know that UK and Israel vaccine numbers arn't quite enough. We have the advantage of fairly fresh vaccines, a fairly low population density. But both those countries have the advantage of some natural immunity form actual infections.

-------

Regarding the general state of play.

All the Media experts are using fairly guarded negitive terms "moving to level 3 is a risk", I think the skepticism here of Auckland ability to decrease case numbers is fairly in line with this.

Watched the TV1 press conference feed today. They had yesterdays number of cases infections in the community in the ticker as 9. Good to see them highlighting this important data point.

So the sequence for 17 Sept - 21 sept data releases are: 9,7,6,6,9. We are not even close to being on top of this.

We also know that the virus has now found it's way into two rival gangs. Obviously a massive challenger for containment attempts.

Haven't found the health order for Level 3 yet. Very interested to see if they mandate vaccinated over 65's to stay home, but think it is probiably just a suggestion.

Oblivian

7296 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2781711 21-Sep-2021 14:56

Scott3:

We are seeing signs that we are starting to the hard bit of the vaccination program in terms of getting first doses into people. Yesterday Second doses passed first doses (25,674 vs 24,522), which I can't recall having recently. Hopefully all the government effort will have us at least approaching that stretch goal.

If the decision to go to level 3 tonight does lead to increasing case numbers, (possibly with daily cases topping 1000 in November / December), Our vaccination level is going to be super important.

Another jump in figures may also push a few hesitants over to the light side from dark. Although there are free alternates to get the ones with burner cellphones who don't do tv, papers, or much word of mouth. Cellbroadcasts.

PM today asked for an entire subdivision to get a test. As part of that, in the community is now a 'geographical reason for concern' (looks like more family groups or neighbours meeting?).

No mention if CB are included. But I expect it would hit a lot more and get neighbours talking if they weren't all watching TV at 1 or catchup with the news.

Not sure who else caught it, but 50-60 positives are expected in the next coming days. So something happened they are aware of. I'll dig the transcript when it comes out for the exacts.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29760 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2781712 21-Sep-2021 14:58

Scott3:

Our world in data (which has slightly favorable NZ population number), Has us as having passed the USA for first doses, and fast closing in on the EU and Israel.

i guess it's not where you start but where you finish, in this case.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29760 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2781715 21-Sep-2021 15:01

Scott3:

Regarding the general state of play.

All the Media experts are using fairly guarded negitive terms "moving to level 3 is a risk", I think the skepticism here of Auckland ability to decrease case numbers is fairly in line with this.

Watched the TV1 press conference feed today. They had yesterdays number of cases infections in the community in the ticker as 9. Good to see them highlighting this important data point.

So the sequence for 17 Sept - 21 sept data releases are: 9,7,6,6,9. We are not even close to being on top of this.

We also know that the virus has now found it's way into two rival gangs. Obviously a massive challenger for containment attempts.

Haven't found the health order for Level 3 yet. Very interested to see if they mandate vaccinated over 65's to stay home, but think it is probiably just a suggestion.

regardless what the official party line is - this is my interpretation of what's happened

- give it our best shot at eliminating delta - we shut down when we had 1 case. we had what 6 weeks of level 4.

- that way you don't have any regrets down the line and say - i wonder what would have happened if we did another week of level 4.

- but it's time to go to move on

- i don't think they know what plan B is. seems to be level 3 for 2 weeks and see what happens.

- so in 2 weeks we'll see what the govt wants to do

it's definitely the underworld that spread the virus. it's all over the gangs, it's in the prisons. also definitely underestimated - just look at the prisoner released that's brought it outside of AKL now

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2781718 21-Sep-2021 15:06

Batman:

i guess it's not where you start but where you finish, in this case.

If we had started earlier then the pain in the last few months could have been somewhat mitigated. I think it absolutely matters where (and when) we started.

1 | ... | 1757 | 1758 | 1759 | 1760 | 1761 | 1762 | 1763 | 1764 | 1765 | 1766 | 1767 | ... | 2422