2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Awrrr
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#2781771 21-Sep-2021 16:41

Oblivian:

As a final comment, if you have something to say about my posts, just say it but keep it out of the personal bin. If you don't like me that is your problem, not mine.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Oblivian

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#2781773 21-Sep-2021 16:44

Sidestep:

NZ's got the opportunity - and the breathing room - to get that large percentage (90%) of the population vaccinated without the added pressure of covid spreading unchecked across the country and overwhelming hospitals. The last 10% is going to be the hardest.

I think enticing the vaccine hesitant, or those who just don't care, with money, prizes (or bourbon) is an idea worth trying.

Here, I'd be happy to see them try anything at all that gets more people vaccinated.

Guess I'm clearly the odd person out then.

I'm all for reaching where we need to be. But not squeezing the last people to be beyond their own stupidity my means of simplicity of monetary value handouts. And if we have a world where that is required over community outreach and science. Our futures are doomed. (idiocracy anyone)

The entire idea of those restrictions being a possibility, the continual restrictions, filled up hospitals, and watching the rest of the world in a dumpster fire. Is, and should be enough without enticing. (infact I'm all for them suggesting those are a future possibility now to hurry people up) Many after all are keyboard warriors and internet users. Volunteer doctor like from the group that recently did the open letter to vaccinate turn up on their door. The real life outlook of these people I expect is quite different.

The hard yards have been done. We are likely to see spikes in the coming weeks from flaunters. Like the UK, it's still going to spread against the vaccinated, there's no doubt about it. There will also be people they know effected. And that's still not going to be enough?

Hopes and dreams dashed then.

Oblivian

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#2781774 21-Sep-2021 16:53

Rikkitic:

As a final comment, if you have something to say about my posts, just say it but keep it out of the personal bin. If you don't like me that is your problem, not mine.

In other words, do nothing because you can't be sure that doing something will work the way you want it to? I don't quite see the logic of that.

Personal.

The Sigh. Was me giving up. Because as you can see by follow ups, clearly I'm outnumbered in not really wanting to resort to dangling monetary gain to fight stupidity and lack of foresight of the rest of the population when there could be less taxing methods. But if we're going to. There had better be a fallback for those that (will) cry fowl or think it even more artilleries against some conspiracy to be included in some way despite clearer thinking heads knowing better.

Scott3

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#2781777 21-Sep-2021 17:00

Sidestep:

Oblivian:

Fine. Go ahead. Charge forward. I also want my backdated payment for getting my jabs. As will my neighbor. As will my workmates. And for my flu jab next year too thanks. Or I may 'forget' to and wait till I'm in the last push.

Where I am the government is offering $100 for a first or second vaccination, entry to a million dollar lottery and chances to win travel prizes.

When I got vaccinated (in April and June) I didn't receive a cent. Am I demanding backdated payment? Of course not - this is truly a matter of life or death. People are dying. Horribly.

We're at just over 70% of the eligible fully vaccinated and over 80% with at least one shot, but there are still thousands of new cases every day, and the ICU's are full nearly to the point of triage protocols being introduced. There obviously needs to be a much higher percentage than this vaccinated.

NZ's got the opportunity - and the breathing room - to get that large percentage (90%) of the population vaccinated without the added pressure of covid spreading unchecked across the country and overwhelming hospitals. The last 10% is going to be the hardest.

I think enticing the vaccine hesitant, or those who just don't care, with money, prizes (or bourbon) is an idea worth trying.

Here, I'd be happy to see them try anything at all that gets more people vaccinated.
They're using sticks as well as carrots, you can't travel, or go into a bar or restaurant without a vaccine passport or negative test, but the expression “you get more flies with honey than with vinegar” seems to be accurate, at least for now.

Aussie has strict rules around vaccine incentives.

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/07/covid-19-vaccination-business-kit-information-sheet-vaccination-rewards.pdf

Biggest one is that it has to be retrospective. The idea being that we don't want a single person to defer their vaccine hoping for a more lucrative reward in the future.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2781778 21-Sep-2021 17:01

Oblivian:

In other words, do nothing because you can't be sure that doing something will work the way you want it to? I don't quite see the logic of that.

Personal.

The Sigh. Was me giving up. Because as you can see by follow ups, clearly I'm outnumbered in not really wanting to resort to dangling monetary gain to fight stupidity and lack of foresight of the rest of the population when there could be less taxing methods. But if we're going to. There had better be a fallback for those that (will) cry fowl or think it even more artilleries against some conspiracy to be included in some way despite clearer thinking heads knowing better.

If my comment came across as personal, that wasn't the intention. I was using 'you' in the sense of 'one'. I was commenting on what I perceive as faulty reasoning in general. In other words, I can't be sure this kite will fly, so I won't bother trying. If bribes are what takes to get the last refusniks over the line, then what is the harm in trying that? Maybe it won't work, but if it does, it will have been worth it.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Oblivian

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#2781779 21-Sep-2021 17:02

Transcripts out on the earlier 50/60

Back to yesterday’s five unlinked cases, four of those are closely geographically linked to
existing households that have cases, and there are strong leads. Just one is still under
investigation. Obviously, that lower number of 14 cases today is encouraging, but we do
expect the numbers to bounce around a bit. Based on the number of very close contacts we
already have in isolation, mostly household contacts, we would expect another 50 or 60
further cases just from that group over the coming week or two.

That's going to skew things slightly going forward to know what impact 3 does or does not bring :/

/edit Presumably that raises a further question. Do they get 1 chance to all live at home in larger household case scenarios, rather than all need to be moved out and locked up in JetPark or similar. With breaches equating to a move... While we have some seemingly obvious neighbours not at war (or avoiding)

Scott3

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#2781781 21-Sep-2021 17:07

Batman:

it's definitely the underworld that spread the virus. it's all over the gangs, it's in the prisons. also definitely underestimated - just look at the prisoner released that's brought it outside of AKL now

I think you have really over-reached with this speculation.

Regarding gangs, we only publicly know of two gang linked individuals (from rival gangs) that have been infected.

The press conferences over going back a little talked about spread between families of different households, and spread in essential workplaces.

It seems very unlikely the virus is in the prisons. it would spread super rapidly in that residential setting, and people would get symptoms.

The additional people in the car of the friend / family member somewhere between prison and the person's bail address seem like the most probable source. These people may have gang links, but there is no confirmation of that.

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mattwnz

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#2781784 21-Sep-2021 17:14

alasta:

When Wellington was in level 3 a couple of weeks ago you could walk to the shops to collect takeaways, but you couldn't physically enter the store. i.e. you had to wait outside until your order was ready, then approach the store entrance to collect.

Requiring people to have a car to collect takeaways would be nuts.

I remember last year seeing photos of crowds of people in Wellington outside the takeaways, some not socially distanced, waiting for the food. At least cars would keep people socially distanced.

mattwnz

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#2781785 21-Sep-2021 17:17

vexxxboy:

Penalties for breaches of COVID-19 orders are set to significantly increase from early November 2021 to better reflect the seriousness of any behaviour that threatens New Zealand’s response to the virus, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today.

“Throughout this Delta outbreak we’ve seen the overwhelming majority of people doing their bit by complying with Alert Level restrictions, which are there to protect our communities by stopping the spread of COVID-19,” Chris Hipkins said.

“Police continue to report high compliance levels at checkpoints and in their day-to-day interactions with people across the country.

“Disappointingly however a number of serious breaches have occurred, which seriously put at risk the good progress we’ve made to stamp out Delta. I think all New Zealanders would agree that this behaviour is unacceptable.

“Rule breaking risks spreading the virus, and the fees which have been in place no longer properly reflect the significant social and economic impacts of a single case of COVID-19 getting out in the community.

“Breaches by a small minority create a risk for everyone, and these new penalties will provide further deterrence to those who choose to break the rules,” Chris Hipkins said.

The changes are:

The penalty for failing to comply with a COVID-19 requirement that has been specified as an infringement offence will increase to a maximum infringement fee of $4,000 (previously $300) or a $12,000 maximum court imposed fine, up from $1,000. Examples of infringement offences include failure to wear a face covering in places where it is mandatory.
A person who intentionally fails to comply with a COVID-19 order, thereby committing a criminal offence, is now liable on conviction for a fine of up to $12,000, up from $4,000, or six months imprisonment.That could include offences such as a person travelling without permission, or travelling for a purpose other than what was permitted, from an Alert Level 4 or 3 area to Alert Level 2.
A maximum infringement fee of $12,000 or maximum criminal offence fine of $15,000 has also been introduced for body corporates who fail to have systems and processes in place in accordance with the Health Order.
These changes will take effect in November, subject to the passing of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Amendment Bill.

if they werent a deterrent before then raising them will also do nothing. Studies show that fines do nothing to make people follow covid rules. all they do is make the people who follow the rules feel better. i mean out of a population of 1.5 million you think only a dozen or so people broke level 4 rules. They were the people who got caught, there must be hundreds if not thousands who just ignored or broke level 4 rules and you would never no.

What studies? It may have some effect, as some people don't like getting hit in the wallet. Plus the previous low fines were a bit of a joke, at least this pulls them more in line with Oz.

I was listening to the DG of the radio today and he said that some of the new cases were a households, and they were on the same road as some other household cases, which is where their could be a link. Yet level 4 doesn't allow households to come in contact. So will they be fining people where they have been infected from inter bubble contact, where genome testing maybe able to prove there have been mingling? It is this sort of thing that has delayed Auckland coming out of lockdown earlier.

The government are also asking the entire Clover Park area to be tested. But how many will actually do it, and if they think there is undetected CT occurring in that suburb, why are they dropping that area into level 3 tomorrow, when they have put another area into level 4 until Friday. It just seems so inconsistent and like they are making thing up as they go along, when some of the things don't follow lodgic. A lot of the top experts don't seem too happy about Auckland moving down a level at this stage, as the virus is going to be far harder to eliminate in level 3

Handle9

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#2781792 21-Sep-2021 17:31

mattwnz:So will they be fining people where they have been infected from inter bubble contact, where genome testing maybe able to prove there have been mingling?

That would definitely encourage everyone in Clover Park to get tested.

You can't fine your way out of lockdown.

mattwnz

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#2781797 21-Sep-2021 17:46

Handle9:

mattwnz:So will they be fining people where they have been infected from inter bubble contact, where genome testing maybe able to prove there have been mingling?

That would definitely encourage everyone in Clover Park to get tested.

You can't fine your way out of lockdown.

I guess they will be doing it when they catch people in the act, rather than penalising people for being tested. But if things like some people being overstayers, it may already be preventing some people being tested. There hasn't been anything I have heard this time around that has said that has said they won't be penalizing overstayers for getting tested.

IMO they probably should be going door to door testing people. Being nice and kindness hasn't worked in Auckland, and some people are just ignoring things letting the team of 5 million down. They really need to get on top of this where they know the areas it is spreading, otherwise Auckland could be in level 3 for months, and the rest of NZ in level 2 at christmas, if not a higher level.

Also the MOH seems to be heavily relying on vaccination during level 3. But because someone maybe fit and health gets double jabbed, it may not prevent them needing hospitalization from covid, so it isn't a silver bullet to keep hospitals clear of the virus. https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/women-in-sport/300411816/it-hits-very-hard-australian-olympic-swimmer-hospitalised-with-covid19-in-italy

tdgeek

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#2781806 21-Sep-2021 18:21

Oblivian:

Transcripts out on the earlier 50/60

Back to yesterday’s five unlinked cases, four of those are closely geographically linked to
existing households that have cases, and there are strong leads. Just one is still under
investigation. Obviously, that lower number of 14 cases today is encouraging, but we do
expect the numbers to bounce around a bit. Based on the number of very close contacts we
already have in isolation, mostly household contacts, we would expect another 50 or 60
further cases just from that group over the coming week or two.

That's going to skew things slightly going forward to know what impact 3 does or does not bring :/

/edit Presumably that raises a further question. Do they get 1 chance to all live at home in larger household case scenarios, rather than all need to be moved out and locked up in JetPark or similar. With breaches equating to a move... While we have some seemingly obvious neighbours not at war (or avoiding)

Agree. We have cases every day its not improving. But if in my street we had 5 errant households mixing with others but complying with the Level 4 rules, that means that 1. a string of cases 2. no community spread (or at least low risk as they are mandated to wear masks for essential purchases)

It does skew the result. If you had a prison with x number of errant inmates causing a ruckus, but they are all still locked up. Yes, there is more risk when errant households go to New World, but ts very clear that supermarkets aren't petri dishes.

Say we had NO household mingling, the cases would be very very low.

tdgeek

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#2781811 21-Sep-2021 18:29

mattwnz:

I guess they will be doing it when they catch people in the act, rather than penalising people for being tested. But if things like some people being overstayers, it may already be preventing some people being tested. There hasn't been anything I have heard this time around that has said that has said they won't be penalizing overstayers for getting tested.

IMO they probably should be going door to door testing people. Being nice and kindness hasn't worked in Auckland, and some people are just ignoring things letting the team of 5 million down. They really need to get on top of this where they know the areas it is spreading, otherwise Auckland could be in level 3 for months, and the rest of NZ in level 2 at christmas, if not a higher level.

IIRC the cases noted today are 13% Maori and 68.1% Pasifika. Thats over 4/5. Do you want to target those cultures? George Orwell. Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. Its delicate, and the last thing we want is more racism in NZ, and we have seen the targeting of Middle East cultures here after the march 15 attack.

Sometimes you need to accept we are not an equal society and some are not as well off as others, so its not their fault they get squeezed in situations like this. Are we are team of 5 million or do we break down the numbers and go there??

It is what it is

tdgeek

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#2781814 21-Sep-2021 18:38

W.T.F.?

A man was found hiding in the boot of a car in a failed bid to leave Auckland and enter Waikato.

The car was stopped at 2.40am on Tuesday at the Mercer checkpoint,intending to travel south out of Auckland.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300412481/covid19-man-found-hiding-in-car-boot-trying-to-leave-auckland-in-border-breach

What is it with some people? I hope these new fines are implemented NOW and drain the bank account into an unauthorised overdraft. Not the $5 a week BS that often happens.

mattwnz

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#2781816 21-Sep-2021 18:41

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

I guess they will be doing it when they catch people in the act, rather than penalising people for being tested. But if things like some people being overstayers, it may already be preventing some people being tested. There hasn't been anything I have heard this time around that has said that has said they won't be penalizing overstayers for getting tested.

IMO they probably should be going door to door testing people. Being nice and kindness hasn't worked in Auckland, and some people are just ignoring things letting the team of 5 million down. They really need to get on top of this where they know the areas it is spreading, otherwise Auckland could be in level 3 for months, and the rest of NZ in level 2 at christmas, if not a higher level.

IIRC the cases noted today are 13% Maori and 68.1% Pasifika. Thats over 4/5. Do you want to target those cultures? George Orwell. Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others. Its delicate, and the last thing we want is more racism in NZ, and we have seen the targeting of Middle East cultures here after the march 15 attack.

Sometimes you need to accept we are not an equal society and some are not as well off as others, so its not their fault they get squeezed in situations like this. Are we are team of 5 million or do we break down the numbers and go there??

It is what it is

I am talking about suburbs only. The PM said today that she wants an entire suburb to all get tested. You have gone way off on a tangent.

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