2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2439434 16-Mar-2020 16:32

https://www.operatunity.co.nz/

From the above:

Following the announcement last night from PM Jacinda Ardern with regards to the Coronavirus pandemic, we believe we need to make a preemptive move in regards to our concerts for the next two weeks. So it is with sincere regret that John and I have decided to temporarily suspend the following concerts presented by Operatunity effective immediately.

We are a company who has a duty of care to keep our customers and staff safe. Our company has been built on integrity in business and genuine care of our senior population. Every day we deal with the more mature members of society who are, according to all statistics, the most susceptible to COVID-19. With this in mind we need to mitigate risk and make a strong decision to ensure your health and safety.

Ultimately this is a decision based on care of people and not business.

… We kindly ask ticket holders to keep their tickets until they receive further instructions. Your tickets will remain valid until the exchange procedure is established by us. There will be no refunds but we will work hard to ensure that you are able to use your credit, either to see Glenn Miller at a rescheduled date or another show of your choice.

Operatunity not only put on great musical concerts throughout the country, but they also host several overseas trips. The last Operatunity concert we went to was lovely and had about 450 people there.

However, their decision not to give any refunds for concerts that people have paid in advance for, is perhaps not so good, but they are quite a small company and I guess they need the cash to maintain cash flow and commitments.

This raises the point of whether companies which have received money in advance for concerts should be obliged to refund in full monies paid in advance if the concerts are cancelled? It's not quite so good saying that you can transfer your tickets to a future concert if you have no idea whether these concerts will in fact go ahead. So, what do you think of this situation, should Operatunity be legally obliged to make refunds if these are requested?

mattwnz

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#2439438 16-Mar-2020 16:39

sbiddle:

GV27:

People are forgetting kids cannot be offloaded onto grandparents with this. Closing schools is massive, it would close down an enormous portion of the workforce.

Chicken and egg. The workforce will ultimately be closed down anyway if major community spread occurs.

This essentially occurs during Xmas and new years anyway. So maybe it is a case of moving this break up to now. Maybe this is why the UK is doing it differently and keeping schools open even though they appear to have community transmission and their detected cases have now gone exponential. Likewsie they are apparently looking at isolating the elderly and people and people with other conditions. So the death rate if they did this could be around 0.2-0.4% (Which is around the rate of anyone who is under 50), if no elderly get it, which is about 2-4 times the normal flu.

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#2439439 16-Mar-2020 16:40

frednz:

https://www.operatunity.co.nz/

From the above:

Following the announcement last night from PM Jacinda Ardern with regards to the Coronavirus pandemic, we believe we need to make a preemptive move in regards to our concerts for the next two weeks. So it is with sincere regret that John and I have decided to temporarily suspend the following concerts presented by Operatunity effective immediately.

The government have also said that all gatherings over 500 people to be cancelled. But schools and universities to remain open. But we have to get used to social distancing. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120312021/coronavirus-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-announces-details-on-mass-gatherings

MikeB4

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#2439443 16-Mar-2020 16:44

mattwnz:

This essentially occurs during Xmas and new years anyway. So maybe it is a case of moving this break up to now. Maybe this is why the UK is doing it differently and keeping schools open even though they appear to have community transmission and their detected cases have now gone exponential. Likewsie they are apparently looking at isolating the elderly and people and people with other conditions. So the death rate if they did this could be around 0.2-0.4% (Which is around the rate of anyone who is under 50), if no elderly get it, which is about 2-4 times the normal flu.

We cannot say that our experience with infected children will be the same as the offshore. We have a very high rate of Asthma here circa 15% I believe and this places are kids at higher risk.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

mattwnz

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#2439444 16-Mar-2020 16:47

MikeB4:

We cannot say that our experience with infected children will be the same as the offshore. We have a very high rate of Asthma here circa 15% I believe and this places are kids at higher risk.

Good point. There are always going to be differences between the makeup of people in different countries. Italy has one of the oldest populations which is seen as one reason their death-rate is so high, although NZ's must be quite old too due.

frednz

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#2439451 16-Mar-2020 16:57

mattwnz:

frednz:

https://www.operatunity.co.nz/

From the above:

Following the announcement last night from PM Jacinda Ardern with regards to the Coronavirus pandemic, we believe we need to make a preemptive move in regards to our concerts for the next two weeks. So it is with sincere regret that John and I have decided to temporarily suspend the following concerts presented by Operatunity effective immediately.

The government have also said that all gatherings over 500 people to be cancelled. But schools and universities to remain open. But we have to get used to social distancing. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120312021/coronavirus-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-announces-details-on-mass-gatherings

Thanks, so when such gatherings are cancelled, are the organisers legally obliged to make refunds? Would a company that couldn't afford to make refunds be able to claim on any insurance policy so that refunds could be made if requested?

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Fred99

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#2439454 16-Mar-2020 17:02

US CDC has recommended that for the next 8 weeks, all events with more than 50 people attending are cancelled or postponed.

eracode

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#2439455 16-Mar-2020 17:05

@frednz Quote: “So, what do you think of this situation, should Operatunity be legally obliged to make refunds if these are requested?”

They’ve got to be legally obliged to make refunds if requested - and if not legally, then morally obliged. Bit of a cheek what they’re proposing. The reason for the cancellation is irrelevant. Being a small company and “needing the cash to maintain cash flow and commitments” is equally irrelevant because the money is owed back to the customers.

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#2439457 16-Mar-2020 17:14

Overseas the trick seems to be to "postpone" your event rather than cancel.

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#2439458 16-Mar-2020 17:16

frednz:

https://www.operatunity.co.nz/

From the above:

Following the announcement last night from PM Jacinda Ardern with regards to the Coronavirus pandemic, we believe we need to make a preemptive move in regards to our concerts for the next two weeks. So it is with sincere regret that John and I have decided to temporarily suspend the following concerts presented by Operatunity effective immediately.

We are a company who has a duty of care to keep our customers and staff safe. Our company has been built on integrity in business and genuine care of our senior population. Every day we deal with the more mature members of society who are, according to all statistics, the most susceptible to COVID-19. With this in mind we need to mitigate risk and make a strong decision to ensure your health and safety.

Ultimately this is a decision based on care of people and not business.

… We kindly ask ticket holders to keep their tickets until they receive further instructions. Your tickets will remain valid until the exchange procedure is established by us. There will be no refunds but we will work hard to ensure that you are able to use your credit, either to see Glenn Miller at a rescheduled date or another show of your choice.

Operatunity not only put on great musical concerts throughout the country, but they also host several overseas trips. The last Operatunity concert we went to was lovely and had about 450 people there.

However, their decision not to give any refunds for concerts that people have paid in advance for, is perhaps not so good, but they are quite a small company and I guess they need the cash to maintain cash flow and commitments.

This raises the point of whether companies which have received money in advance for concerts should be obliged to refund in full monies paid in advance if the concerts are cancelled? It's not quite so good saying that you can transfer your tickets to a future concert if you have no idea whether these concerts will in fact go ahead. So, what do you think of this situation, should Operatunity be legally obliged to make refunds if these are requested?

If you were invoking a chargeback on a credit card, you'd get your money back on the basis that you didn't receive the goods/services that you paid for - and with no future dates given, there's no guarantee you ever will.

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vexxxboy

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#2439471 16-Mar-2020 17:19

mattwnz:

MikeB4:

We cannot say that our experience with infected children will be the same as the offshore. We have a very high rate of Asthma here circa 15% I believe and this places are kids at higher risk.

Good point. There are always going to be differences between the makeup of people in different countries. Italy has one of the oldest populations which is seen as one reason their death-rate is so high, although NZ's must be quite old too due.

but to have no deaths or even much sickness under the age of 9 in any country there must be a reason why and it looks like, for whatever reason, the virus ignores children.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#2439520 16-Mar-2020 17:44

eracode:
@frednz Quote: “So, what do you think of this situation, should Operatunity be legally obliged to make refunds if these are requested?”

They’ve got to be legally obliged to make refunds if requested - and if not legally, then morally obliged. Bit of a cheek what they’re proposing. The reason for the cancellation is irrelevant. Being a small company and “needing the cash to maintain cash flow and commitments” is equally irrelevant because the money is owed back to the customers.

It would be a bit unfair if they had already sunk money into getting things organised and then were out of pocket themselves. I know of several events that were cancelled this time last year due to government restrictions, and they only gave a partial refund

What did the fine print say when the tickets were purchased I wonder?

Journeyman

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#2439521 16-Mar-2020 17:47

Tomorrow at 14:00, 1 News is airing a news special about the governments economic response announcement including their 'significant' business continuity package. I expect it'll probably stream live on their website as well.

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#2439527 16-Mar-2020 17:55

ResponseMediaNZ:

Serious? Ok, so all tourist activites must fall under that umbrella. Every one is entertainment, they are not essential. That's 400,000 directly affected according to the media today. Every tourist business brings in foreign exchange, and employs people so that MSD doesnt have to pay the dole. I'm surprised that you want to cast 400,000 people aside so easily. There is no tourist activity that can be deemed an essential business. In fact many businesses are not essential, but they for a key part of our economy

Ugh so i was trying not to wade into this to much but this hit a nerve......

@MikeB4 - you might not think that its an essential business.. think about the tourism industry as a whole, not just the direct tourism companies but also the companies that supply these companies like the ones that supply all the souvenirs and other services, also what about the IT companies that are supplying services to them? This is going to have a massive impact to NZ and I don't think the average person understands or sees how big of an impact this is going to have to NZ as a whole for a long time.

not just tourism but the event industry too like festivals and the likes all face massive uncertainty

I know for a fact that companies are already laying people off and it was only announced Saturday, other companies are going down to 4 days a week with the 5th either unpaid or annual leave.

@tdgeek - that number is very small if we are talking direct and indirect numbers we are looking upwards of a million people I would guess.

That particular company just lost several hundred dollars of bookings from me when my client cancelled.

Also lost

22 hotel/other accommodation nights
2 Onsen bookings
4 ferry bookings
1 helicopter charter
22 restaurant bookings
8 other activity bookings
4 International flights
Thousands in GST payments
A bunch of free tourism marketing when my clients got home and said what a great time they had here

At a guess, the companies affected directly or indirectly (just by one small company cancelling one trip) probably support at least 500 staff in feeding their families or paying their mortgages.

I'm hardly known for possessing an excess of empathy, but even I wouldn't dismiss that as unessential. I am sure that those who rely on the work wouldn't either.

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#2439535 16-Mar-2020 18:03

mattwnz:
Then you have people who own Airbnbs who have mortgages, who need tourists to rent them, which will largely dry up. I had read that there are nearly 40,000 houses rented out on Airbnb type sites in NZ, which sounds large. I guess one good side is that they may sell them, and they go back into the housing pool for people to live in, due to us already having a housing crisis.

The Airbnb investment bubble financed by cheap money could burst worldwide. Bad for the investor and the tourist, but great for the local economies suffering a shortage of affordable houses?

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