2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2789247 4-Oct-2021 18:16

Getting a bit petty here again

ICU staff? Read the work that's being done to expand ICU capacity, was in the media just a few days ago IIRC. But thats a positive thing, sorry, but its better than petty negative posts.

Buster

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#2789248 4-Oct-2021 18:17

I think it is already a timing thing more than vaccination percentages. There is no excuse now for everyone eligible to have received their first jab to have actually had it. Sensible people not living under a rock are getting a shot. Some sectors of society are holding out for whatever reason and I think they are going to be left behind.

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#2789249 4-Oct-2021 18:22

tdgeek:
Getting a bit petty here again

ICU staff? Read the work that's being done to expand ICU capacity, was in the media just a few days ago IIRC. But thats a positive thing, sorry, but its better than petty negative posts.

Nobody is being petty. People are already not doing what the should be. Appeasing them is not the right answer, not without consequences of not doing what they should be. Thats not petty, its life saving. Re ICU, the question was about where we are getting a plethora of ICU staff. As for expansion, the point made is it has come way too late, but of course doing something is better than nothing.

As Matt points out, whats does outdoors mean, given one outdoor environment has a different potential load to open air socially distanced environment.

Again, its not petty, its pointing out, the appeasements have no exacts, which they should, along with repercussions for breaking them.

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#2789258 4-Oct-2021 18:32

Buster:
Some sectors of society are holding out for whatever reason and I think they are going to be left behind.

I think some are hoping a miracle cure is coming. Moderna saying given the dose capacity will be for all humans by mid next year, so the pandemic should be under control. Im not sure if statements like that makes people falsely think it means they will be "safe" by mid next year (thats iust one example). You have the tin hat brigade, people like Rogan have a young audience and he does not allow "experts" to speak without interrupting to fill is narrative. Some likely just dont give a flap.

As Ive said before, if the internet didnt exist, this would have been well under control by now imo. Disinformation yet again. NZ is so easily swayed, yet people seem to think the psyche in NZ is we are progressive. We are so far away from that, given the last referendum and now the influence from social media and search engine disinfo impacting our vax rates. I could digress in economics but best to stay on topic.

But yes, I think they will be left behind. Moderna also stated its "delta" based vaccines would be rolled out to poorer nations first as that is the dominant strain right now and places like some African countries it is like wildfire. Id assume given full protection with pfizer drops to ~30% after 6 months (source ABC Coronacast), we will get a "delta" based booster at some stage nxt year. The discussions ive read, once the pandemic is under "control" in relation to boosters, looks possibly like yearly for the elderly and 3 yearly for the young. But imo a bit early to know.

mattwnz:

Did I hear the PM say that vaccinations alone won't be enough? Also say that they want to see the high levels of vaccination so levels 3 and 4 won't be needed. But that doesn't sound like things are going back to pre covid days (eg level 1)

not sure as I tuned out after I heard the appeasements/concessions. I was hoping for talk about mandatory mask wearing anywhere in public, given masks are widely known and debated as potentially equally important to vaccines, in reducing viral load (the 2 together make me personally comfortable using a domestic plane).

Yes that again is one of those wishy washy statements made. Again this is not petty stuff. Its life saving stuff and we deserve definitive plans and consequences for those that break concessions.

Batman

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#2789280 4-Oct-2021 18:52

interesting I didn't know Olympic athletes can't get home and need to strike lottery i mean MIQ

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-scott-barrett-and-patrick-tuipulotu-to-return-home-from-all-blacks-touring-squad-rookie-josh-lord-earns-call-up/7EKTETE6JAATGP6XFXKSSYHBPM/

MaxineN

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#2789284 4-Oct-2021 18:55

tdgeek:

Getting a bit petty here again

ICU staff? Read the work that's being done to expand ICU capacity, was in the media just a few days ago IIRC. But thats a positive thing, sorry, but its better than petty negative posts.

I think it's because everyone's tired but physically and mentally. And also as relevant as this thread is during this time, this thread has gone on FOR A REALLY long time and it's leaving a bad taste for some(just my thoughts).

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#2789285 4-Oct-2021 18:56

TeaLeaf:
tdgeek:

Getting a bit petty here again

ICU staff? Read the work that's being done to expand ICU capacity, was in the media just a few days ago IIRC. But thats a positive thing, sorry, but its better than petty negative posts.

Nobody is being petty. People are already not doing what the should be. Appeasing them is not the right answer, not without consequences of not doing what they should be. Thats not petty, its life saving. Re ICU, the question was about where we are getting a plethora of ICU staff. As for expansion, the point made is it has come way too late, but of course doing something is better than nothing. As Matt points out, whats does outdoors mean, given one outdoor environment has a different potential load to open air socially distanced environment. Again, its not petty, its pointing out, the appeasements have no exacts, which they should, along with repercussions for breaking them.

Just gonna comment on the outdoors thing - this softer restriction really does feel like soft level 3 and I'm a tad concerned that ECEs are opening because little ones can be massive germ farms for god knows what. It wouldn't surprise me if this ends up creating new clusters.

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Ge0rge

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#2789287 4-Oct-2021 19:03

Batman:

interesting I didn't know Olympic athletes can't get home and need to strike lottery i mean MIQ

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-scott-barrett-and-patrick-tuipulotu-to-return-home-from-all-blacks-touring-squad-rookie-josh-lord-earns-call-up/7EKTETE6JAATGP6XFXKSSYHBPM/

All Olympic Athletes had spots secured for them as part of a group booking immediately after the Olympics. Those "spots" weren't able to be held for them so they could come back when they felt like it. Wilde has just won an event in London, Venus is playing tennis in the US. Their Olympic status has nothing to do with their ability or not to get home.

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#2789288 4-Oct-2021 19:03

MaxineN: Just gonna comment on the outdoors thing - this softer restriction really does feel like soft level 3 and I'm a tad concerned that ECEs are opening because little ones can be massive germ farms for god knows what. It wouldn't surprise me if this ends up creating new clusters.

Yep, that is partly why Aucklanders are over it I think, not because of lock down, but because all concessions just make it softer and softer, which will be leaving Auck in lockdown until post Xmas at this stage (looking at declining vax rates).

Yeah, part of me was happy for the young tackers to be back with pairs as its so important at that age, the other part of me was like, eeeek, here we go, try keeping a bunch of toddlers and facemasks compliant lol, given them a fine lol. Kids are suffering the longer this goes on. Which is another reason why they should have gone harder, not softer.

not sure if the Banga's facemask study was posted already, but this is the kind of thing the "Leader" should be communicating, while we are waiting for NZ lagging groups to get vaxxd. If people understand the basic science they will be more compliant imo, the vast majority dont want to kill other people clearly. But it does need a soft explanatory message and a hardline policing.

https://www.acsh.org/news/2021/09/02/clinical-trial-bangladesh-shows-masks-stop-covid-19-sort-15777

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#2789289 4-Oct-2021 19:10

Seven Sharp just had an interview with PM

- not accepting letting covid loose

- not forcing vaccine on people

- waiting for enough people to get vaccinated before we "transition" (transition in Seven Sharp = "moving away from elimination")

Fred99

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#2789290 4-Oct-2021 19:14

Well reading the last couple of pages it seems clear that half the posts think the easing of lockdown conditions is unfair on them / too tough, the other half seem to think we should go to level 5 and crush dissent with anti-aircraft fire.

Everything sucks - but it would have sucked much harder to have lived the past 18 months with endemic covid, Ireland for example, same population as NZ, 6,000 deaths later they're still in a worse situation than we are in now - or at least will be in when we have our vaccination rates up.

I distinctly remember when we went into lockdown #1 there was a message that this pandemic would be impacting us for years. Nothing yet has made that untrue.

Anyway, we slip slop slap and put our kids under shade cloth and hats, get mole mapped and become hypochondriacs when some new spot seems to have appeared. But endemic covid with the present vaccines guarantees an annual death toll 5x that of melanoma, but everything about preventing it is just too hard.

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TeaLeaf

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#2789291 4-Oct-2021 19:15

Batman:
Seven Sharp just had an interview with PM

- not accepting letting covid loose

- not forcing vaccine on people

- not setting targets or dates, just waiting for enough people to get vaccinated

was that a reply to what is the Plan?

Yep she definitely says "Sail", ~6:18 in;

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-announces-phased-end-to-auckland-restrictions-waikato-at-level-3-rest-of-nz-stays-at-level-2/QTHWYUM3DJ7K5IRVSSJS3G5UL4/

I presume they are releasing a guideline to clarify, but what about power boat owners and spearfisherman etc? I know people are rock fishing already. Man the snaps must be wondering what has been going on lol.

Fred99:

Everything sucks - but it would have sucked much harder to have lived the past 18 months with endemic covid, Ireland for example, same population as NZ, 6,000 deaths later they're still in a worse situation than we are in now - or at least will be in when we have our vaccination rates up.

an annual death toll 5x that of melanoma, but everything about preventing it is just too hard.

Yep, and Delta clearly made it harder to control this time around. Even with all the mistakes they have made (leaving borders open to a known delta outbreak etc), it is much better that us Aucklanders endure a bit of hardship for the welfare of not only ourselves but the entire nation. It is a bit annoying when you see Invercargill pubs with disgruntled messages over the hardships of lvl2 concessions but just gotta block the whingers out imo and go at this hard. Or the PM states the truth, Auck will remain in lvl3 with concessions until the entire country is vaccinated to xyz level. Then let it rip.

Ironically I have been waiting 4months for the removal of an ever growing melanoma, diagnosed ~1 month before lockdown, arranged surgery was abandoned due to lockdown, I finally get it this week, I hope. Similarly for other serious health issues, every time I need to have a test done, I have to do a covid test, because nearly every human symptom known to science falls into covid realms. Its definitely put a lot of serious illness on the back burner. On the flip side, I think it was ABC I was listening too, they havnt had a death from non covid based pneumonia in an entire year, Im sure NZs stats would mirror this. But like you said, the death rate would be exponential without Auckland in lockdown. I think those holding on for a miracle will be shocked into action if they do start seeing the fatalities that are inevitable, but had it been India like, Im sure the non believers would have tangible evidence to persuade them.

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#2789293 4-Oct-2021 19:16

i edited it

now typing as i rewatch the interview

they asked PM if we are moving away from elimination answer no, not enough people vaccinated

*** talked about other things ****

asked what rate of vaccination before "move to next phase"

answer

not giving dates, not giving vaccination level

we are watching what's happening with the outbreak

verbatim, so i don't misquote

tdgeek

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#2789295 4-Oct-2021 19:28

TeaLeaf:
tdgeek:

Getting a bit petty here again

ICU staff? Read the work that's being done to expand ICU capacity, was in the media just a few days ago IIRC. But thats a positive thing, sorry, but its better than petty negative posts.

Nobody is being petty. People are already not doing what the should be. Appeasing them is not the right answer, not without consequences of not doing what they should be. Thats not petty, its life saving. Re ICU, the question was about where we are getting a plethora of ICU staff. As for expansion, the point made is it has come way too late, but of course doing something is better than nothing. As Matt points out, whats does outdoors mean, given one outdoor environment has a different potential load to open air socially distanced environment. Again, its not petty, its pointing out, the appeasements have no exacts, which they should, along with repercussions for breaking them.

Petty it is. The attitude by some here is petty and a bit childish at times.

tdgeek

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#2789296 4-Oct-2021 19:31

MaxineN:

I think it's because everyone's tired but physically and mentally. And also as relevant as this thread is during this time, this thread has gone on FOR A REALLY long time and it's leaving a bad taste for some(just my thoughts).

No, it isnt that. Some people make some bizarre posts, its not due to this thread, its every other one as well. But yes there are some others here that are at a wits end, which is sad. So pettiness becomes more obvious.

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