I hope for the latter.

MaxineN, further to Technofreak , post

Most Churches support vaccination. 
So even religious non vaccinating are in a minority, but they may not realise it ?

Perhaps you can find a helpful pastor or church elder that they will talk to re vaccination.
My experience is that religious hardly ever miss opportunity to discuss their religion .

The theological explanation for his view is simple: God gave us the vaccine.
“God provided knowledge and wisdom through other people [and] through the vaccine. That’s how God’s spirit is helping us. So unless we go and do that [get the vaccine] people will die.”

What would Jesus choose ?
Love your neighbour as yourself, one should not be selfish and do this for your neighbour.
Be a 'Good Samaritan' that eases the suffering of others.

In June, the Catholic Church launched a campaign, Love Your Neighbour As Yourself , to encourage those fearful of getting vaccinated because of misinformation.

Baptist Churches of New Zealand, though its autonomous entities, supported the Government’s pandemic response, national leader Charles Hewlett​ said.
“For us our faith is about being prepared to give up our rights for another. It is very much about loving your neighbour.”

This is a resource from NZ Baptist site.
https://baptistmag.org.nz/a-vaccination-conversation/

Maybe you can get them to talk to their doctor about medical concerns if they exist.  

Technofreak:

 

MikeB4: The references to folks religion for example are being couched in hate speech styles for example.

 

I don't see it as hate speech but I see it as intolerance for other peoples beliefs and I put these people in the same boat as the ultra right wing people who are just as intolerant.  I prefer a more moderate approach, I may not agree with your beliefs or convictions but I accept you for what is your personal belief. We can agree to disagree without the need to be disparaging.

 

As an aside I absolutely detest where we are heading with the hate speech debate. Who decides what is hate speech? We all have differing standards on this definition and this will cause division where there was non beforehand. Why not just treat each other with respect and be done with it?

 

This is a topic for a different thread. History has taught us that intolerance can lead to tragedy. It starts with subtlety and ends in extreme outcomes. Tolerance of intolerance is not the answer, if it is then our society is not inclusive and is in trouble.

Batman:

 

air NZ seems to know something ... https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-air-new-zealand-cancels-more-domestic-flights-into-december/RE2UQXJB2NGRIVWIN62B3JOY7M/

 

 

 

Yeah we had two flights cancelled yesterday. Auckland to Nelson shortly and Auckland to Christchurch for December. I thought it was going to be inevitable but the decision was made for us. 

MikeB4:

 

This is a topic for a different thread. History has taught us that intolerance can lead to tragedy. It starts with subtlety and ends in extreme outcomes. Tolerance of intolerance is not the answer, if it is then our society is not inclusive and is in trouble.

 

I agree a topic for a different thread. I never said we need to accept intolerance, but hate speech laws aren't the answer. I gave my answer to the problem in my other post. I'll leave it at that.

shk292:

Geektastic: "Police have condemned a planned hīkoi or march from Rotorua to Northland which is believed to be making its way towards Auckland this evening."

Never mind condemning it. Arrest them! Enough already.

I thought the border was closed?  Or does that only apply to law abiding people, with the usual suspects exempt?

gzt:
It is closed. Nobody wants this bunch to continue let alone reach people legitimately gathered at Waitangi for a different purpose and put them at risk for no reason. Harawira has called this protest a scam and plenty of other people have spoken out against it.

I though they were trying to join up with anti vaxxer Sue Grey?

MikeB4: The references to folks religion for example are being couched in hate speech styles for example.

Freedom of religion is important, but I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to criticise churches such as Destiny Church and Peter Mortlock's City Impact Church, a large pentecostal church based in Auckland. They have both pushed a similar anti-vax message.

It's not hate speech to ask why these large profitable organisations are given tax free status, wage subsidies and in the case of Destiny, earning money by leasing buildings it owned to a medical clinic giving out vaccinations and using a car park to do Covid tests. We are literally paying them to peddle their anti-vax message that undermines our public health services.

Nor is it unreasonable to ask where are the voices of mainstream church leaders calling out these false prophets. Did I miss the news headlines when that happened?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-74-cases-today-govt-decision-on-waikato-alert-level-auckland-schools/IRHPMFYKXS5COJRLPOZ6K3NBOA/

1. 

Bloomfield said health officials were expecting information from Pfizer in first two weeks of November about vaccines for children aged 5-11, and then advice would be given to
ministers. Pfizer is making an application for a child version of its vaccine, and places in the US have it ready to go should it be approved for use, Bloomfield said. This will affect when the vaccine can roll out here.

2. Ministers are meeting this afternoon to discuss changes to the length of MIQ stays, which will be announced tomorrow, Hipkins said.

gzt:
It is closed. Nobody wants this bunch to continue let alone reach people legitimately gathered at Waitangi for a different purpose and put them at risk for no reason. Harawira has called this protest a scam and plenty of other people have spoken out against it.

I think that is the first time I've agreed with HH - strange times we live in.  It's great to see the Northland leaders condemning this, and also the police stopping it.

Batman:

 

1. Bloomfield said health officials were expecting information from Pfizer in first two weeks of November about vaccines for children aged 5-11, and then advice would be given to
ministers. Pfizer is making an application for a child version of its vaccine, and places in the US have it ready to go should it be approved for use, Bloomfield said. This will affect when the vaccine can roll out here.

 

But it seemed very clear from that they were saying that it will require a new shipment- the dose size and the dosages per vial a different, (I suspect the saline dilution may remains the same thou)

- also with only US approval so far its unlikely that Europe (our regular supply source) are not set up for production yet, so our supply will need to come from the US

Although our order is probably fungible thou, so we are likely be able to trade 250K adult doses for 750K paediatric ones...   

However I have a sneaking suspicion that they won't get their ducks in a row this side of Xmas...

cokemaster: [sarcasm]They’ll probably take it slow until there is another outbreak, no need to rush to vaccinate children when covid isn’t in our communities[/sarcasm]

What,  So Auckland will get some, but the rest of us have to wait  :)

FWIW some models are showing we might be close (within a week or two) of peaking daily cases in Auckland,

As the 2nd dose rollout gathers pace the R value will continue to get squeezed...

wellygary:

 

cokemaster: [sarcasm]They’ll probably take it slow until there is another outbreak, no need to rush to vaccinate children when covid isn’t in our communities[/sarcasm]

 

What,  So Auckland will get some, but the rest of us have to wait  :)

 

FWIW some models are showing we might be close (within a week or two) of peaking daily cases in Auckland,

 

As the 2nd dose rollout gathers pace the R value will continue to get squeezed...

 

But aren't these 'cases peaking ' currently artificially low due to the lockdown? Once schools open and restrictions reduce, then it is going to significantly increase the number of paths for infection to occur. The thing is that we are not going to really know how many infections there are, because many people who are vaccinated may get infected but not have symptoms (or very minor), and infect others, including those unvaccinated, and that could occur in supermarkets. .

mattwnz:

 

But aren't these 'cases peaking ' currently artificially low due to the lockdown? Once schools open and restrictions reduce, then it is going to significantly increase the number of paths for infection to occur. The thing is that we are not going to really know how many infections there are, because many people who are vaccinated may get infected but not have symptoms (or very minor), and infect others, including those unvaccinated, and that could occur in supermarkets. .

 

As I understand things anyone one not displaying symptoms is far less likely to pass on the virus as their viral load is significantly less. This is one of the benefits of vaccination. So yes they could pass it on but with the use of masks and social distancing that possibility is significantly reduced.