2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2940848 11-Jul-2022 22:06

Who's placing bets we get red-like mask settings in the next 2 weeks.

They keep talking the measures we do have, have been seen to work. And red is off the cards as the limits are the only change. (Aka public kickback lols). While comments keep jibing that 'not everyone is playing their part ' still.

Sounds like there was a covid catch up today and a review on settings is on the cards.

mattwnz

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#2940859 11-Jul-2022 23:20

IMO politics are now getting in the way of the Covid response and the decisions making needs removing from politicians. The traffic light system was always a poor replacement for levels, and as the PM said, there it is unlikely to make much difference going back to red. Covid has always been political.. But there obviously now needs to be more emphasis on mask wearing to flatten the curve, as well as getting more people using N95s. Hospitals will be likely be completely overwhelmed in a few weeks at the current trajectory. Already the normal NZ health system is badly affected

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#2940866 12-Jul-2022 06:51

mattwnz:

IMO politics are now getting in the way of the Covid response and the decisions making needs removing from politicians. The traffic light system was always a poor replacement for levels, and as the PM said, there it is unlikely to make much difference going back to red. Covid has always been political.. But there obviously now needs to be more emphasis on mask wearing to flatten the curve, as well as getting more people using N95s. Hospitals will be likely be completely overwhelmed in a few weeks at the current trajectory. Already the normal NZ health system is badly affected

Technically, everything is political, I feel thats an easy excuse. Not speaking of myself or everyone here, but the public are over it. Its not complacency as such, they are over it. If you want more restrictions, the public wont wear it. Businesses wont wear it. The battle between health focussed public and freedom focussed public is heavily biased towards freedom, they are over it. You cannot round up 10,000 sheep with one dog, its as simple as that. So the public have the freedom they want, like almost everywhere else in the world, because Governments decided we will need to live with it. Thats what we are doing, like everywhere else, yet having reached that point, how can we complain about hospitalisation? We got what we want, businesses got what they want, and the economic cost of restricting everyone is, based on the milder Omicron isnt really feasible or wise now. Hospital issues are due to us running at 100% when everything is normal, you cannot create 40% more doctors and nurses out of thin air. I hate the cliche, it is what it is, but thats what we have. As far as traffic light is concerned its very clear. What masks here, I dont get the confusion. What I do see is annoyance of restrictions followed by annoyance that hospitals are tight. You cannot have both

PolicyGuy

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#2940891 12-Jul-2022 08:41

tdgeek:

Technically, everything is political, I feel thats an easy excuse. Not speaking of myself or everyone here, but the public are over it. Its not complacency as such, they are over it. If you want more restrictions, the public wont wear it. Businesses wont wear it. The battle between health focussed public and freedom focussed public is heavily biased towards freedom, they are over it. You cannot round up 10,000 sheep with one dog, its as simple as that. So the public have the freedom they want, like almost everywhere else in the world, because Governments decided we will need to live with it. That's what we are doing, like everywhere else, yet having reached that point, how can we complain about hospitalisation? We got what we want, businesses got what they want, and the economic cost of restricting everyone is, based on the milder Omicron isnt really feasible or wise now. Hospital issues are due to us running at 100% when everything is normal, you cannot create 40% more doctors and nurses out of thin air. I hate the cliche, it is what it is, but thats what we have. As far as traffic light is concerned its very clear. What masks here, I don't get the confusion. What I do see is annoyance of restrictions followed by annoyance that hospitals are tight. You cannot have both

(emphasis added)

This

Go to the supermarket, lots of customers without masks
Catch public transport, ditto - an AT bus driver said on Morning Report today "ten percent of passengers get on not wearing a mask"
I had a haircut last week: five barbers going flat out, none of them wearing masks, customers waiting were about 50/50 on mask wearing

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#2940900 12-Jul-2022 08:54

From Stuff today, Verity Johnson's column

So what do you do when someone knows they’re wrong, but they’re not going to change? The problem isn't ignorance, it’s indifference. And how do you change that? Can you change it at all? The Government certainly won’t, it wants to get re-elected.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/129236526/verity-johnson-as-second-omicron-wave-hits-many-appear-indifferent-to-health-advice

freitasm

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#2940901 12-Jul-2022 08:58

tdgeek:

So the public have the freedom they want, like almost everywhere else in the world, because Governments decided we will need to live with it. Thats what we are doing, like everywhere else, yet having reached that point, how can we complain about hospitalisation? We got what we want, businesses got what they want, and the economic cost of restricting everyone is, based on the milder Omicron isnt really feasible or wise now.

People being loud around "Why won't the government do something?" but when something was done people were complaining "Why is the government doing this to us?"

You play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

You don't wear masks and get a vaccine, you get sick.

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#2940909 12-Jul-2022 09:34

Oblivian: Who's placing bets we get red-like mask settings in the next 2 weeks.

I don't really think so, and anyway what mask setting could be changed?!?

At Orange you are required to wear a mask indoors and on Public transport/ubers/taxis

The only real indoor exceptions are Food/Drink establishments and schools.

Schools are the interesting place I though they might have moved on, but the recent announcement was "here's a bunch of masks if you want them " indicates they don't see it as a priority..

The Food/Drink masking won't change that much as you were already allowed to remove them to eat and drink....

Oblivian

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#2940920 12-Jul-2022 09:58

wellygary:

I don't really think so, and anyway what mask setting could be changed?!?

At Orange you are required to wear a mask indoors and on Public transport/ubers/taxis

The only real indoor exceptions are Food/Drink establishments and schools.

Schools are the interesting place I though they might have moved on, but the recent announcement was "here's a bunch of masks if you want them " indicates they don't see it as a priority..

The Food/Drink masking won't change that much as you were already allowed to remove them to eat and drink....

'Required' is the key here. At present. Businesses are told to not confront people. Yet they're 'required' - And most others aren't giving a hoot. So this 'requirement' is a very loose term it would seem.

The PM has repeatedly said in the last week 'wear one when you are outside your home'. But like school kids, the message isn't being heard without conviction. Am expecting a change to wording there.

Food and drink are also rather grey. Takeaways - YES, on paper (so you will see maccas and BK staff all with them all day long).

Customers? 'this is a "restaurant", so I don't have to!'. I go to a regular 'entertainment' spot weekly. It is a rec sports facility, with a bar and food area. How does one classify that if not self-classifying and making their own guidelines? At one point the place was filled with 'no mask no entry' and staff wearing. You had to unless in the seated/activity area but did transiting and so on. Week to week it went from all gone (incl staff). to A week later back but no signage.

I actually want to go back to the days where people still gave you a wide berth as they were near you. Rather than keep breathing toward me in my space unhindered.

Article online yesterday of someone taking CO2 measurements. AKA everyone elses breath in open space. It wasn't pretty on transport or enclosed areas.

tdgeek

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#2940929 12-Jul-2022 10:19

Oblivian:

Article online yesterday of someone taking CO2 measurements. AKA everyone elses breath in open space. It wasn't pretty on transport or enclosed areas.

Read that, a graph of that needs to be on TV ads

arnies

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#2940930 12-Jul-2022 10:21

mattwnz:

IMO politics are now getting in the way of the Covid response and the decisions making needs removing from politicians. The traffic light system was always a poor replacement for levels, and as the PM said, there it is unlikely to make much difference going back to red. Covid has always been political.. But there obviously now needs to be more emphasis on mask wearing to flatten the curve, as well as getting more people using N95s. Hospitals will be likely be completely overwhelmed in a few weeks at the current trajectory. Already the normal NZ health system is badly affected

Covid isn't overwhelming hospitals. From the MoH:

Of the 76 people in Auckland and Counties Manukau hospitals confirmed with SARI illnesses (severe acute respiratory infection) COVID-19 was the cause of infection in 24 percent of those tested for COVID-19, and Influenza was the cause in 52 percent of those tested for influenza.
Other causes of infection were rhinoviruses and enteroviruses.
The current rate of hospitalisations in Auckland and Counties Manukau is in line with rates seen in recent years.

https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/news-items/10710-community-cases-554-hospitalisations-12-icu-15-deaths

frankv

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#2940991 12-Jul-2022 10:51

arnies:

Covid isn't overwhelming hospitals. From the MoH:

Of the 76 people in Auckland and Counties Manukau hospitals confirmed with SARI illnesses (severe acute respiratory infection) COVID-19 was the cause of infection in 24 percent of those tested for COVID-19, and Influenza was the cause in 52 percent of those tested for influenza.
Other causes of infection were rhinoviruses and enteroviruses.
The current rate of hospitalisations in Auckland and Counties Manukau is in line with rates seen in recent years.
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/news-items/10710-community-cases-554-hospitalisations-12-icu-15-deaths

You would be right if there were typically 24% empty beds in hospitals' SARI wards at this time of year, or if there are currently empty beds in SARI wards, or if hospital staff aren't already at maximum workload. None of those factors is addressed, so there's no evidence that hospitals aren't at full capacity. OTOH, I think 15 is a significant number of covid-related deaths. Given that modern medical technology can keep people alive for a long time, I suggest that if hospitals had spare capacity some of those people might not have died.

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arnies

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#2941068 12-Jul-2022 11:30

For sure, but the point I was trying to make was its not covid itself thats causing all the hurt. People & media are obsessed with covid figures when in reality hospitals are slammed from all corners this winter.

Masks will help all of the above and we'll probably see some new rules to get us through the next few months before things subside.

wellygary

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#2941077 12-Jul-2022 11:42

arnies:

For sure, but the point I was trying to make was its not covid itself thats causing all the hurt. People & media are obsessed with covid figures when in reality hospitals are slammed from all corners this winter.

Masks will help all of the above and we'll probably see some new rules to get us through the next few months before things subside.

True, but COVID is certainly being used as the "straw that broke the camels back"

- and for the media having a lovely daily COVID case number wrapped in a bow by the MoH makes it such an easy piñata...

weekly flu numbers from flue tracker are much less media friendly and actually require some work to make into a story...

arnies

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#2941097 12-Jul-2022 12:11

wellygary:

arnies:

For sure, but the point I was trying to make was its not covid itself thats causing all the hurt. People & media are obsessed with covid figures when in reality hospitals are slammed from all corners this winter.

Masks will help all of the above and we'll probably see some new rules to get us through the next few months before things subside.

True, but COVID is certainly being used as the "straw that broke the camels back"

- and for the media having a lovely daily COVID case number wrapped in a bow by the MoH makes it such an easy piñata...

weekly flu numbers from flue tracker are much less media friendly and actually require some work to make into a story...

Well thats not what the data suggests right now: "The current rate of hospitalisations in Auckland and Counties Manukau is in line with rates seen in recent years."

GV27

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#2941099 12-Jul-2022 12:15

arnies:

Well thats not what the data suggests right now: "The current rate of hospitalisations in Auckland and Counties Manukau is in line with rates seen in recent years."

Rate of hopsitalisations yes, but how well can we serve them if there is a staffing crunch? If there is indeed one, I guess.

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