2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2450444 31-Mar-2020 11:20

freitasm:

I think it's time to stop trying to find loopholes or coming up with lame excuses. Please stop the discussion of the "can I drive to play touch rugby on the park across town" discussions now. You are not helping.

OK fair enough. You see, most of my friends want to do the "right" thing and not end up with having their name taken by Police and have warnings issued because they have been doing the "wrong" thing. The question that I asked is quite reasonable and has been asked numerous times on various forums so it is of public interest and the PM has given her interpretation of the "rules" as well on this question.

Thank you for giving your interpretation in answer to my question, which does make sense. I have also read several other interpretations of the answer to this question on various forums, some of which involve defining what the terms "local" or "close by" mean etc etc.

This isn't trying to find "loopholes", but an attempt to understand what the authorities regard as acceptable and what is not so that you don't get offside with Police.

As this discussion is not regarded as helpful on this forum, I consider the matter closed and won't refer to it here again or take the bait when people suggest that it's a really silly question!

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#2450445 31-Mar-2020 11:22

Can anyone link to the actual text of the lockdown regulations themselves? The Statutory Instrument or notice under which the rules are legally defined?

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#2451410 31-Mar-2020 11:30

@Geektastic:

Can anyone link to the actual text of the lockdown regulations themselves? The Statutory Instrument or notice under which the rules are legally defined?

https://covid19.govt.nz/help-and-advice/for-everyone/staying-at-home/ seems to be the source of all knowledge.

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#2451411 31-Mar-2020 11:30

gchiu:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120666809/do-the-consequences-of-this-lockdown-really-match-the-threat

This sort of article needs a peer review before being published.

And stuff is not allowing comments. Seems irresponsible.

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking tough questions or having difficult conversations. His article is well-reasoned and considered.

In my opinion his article misses two key points,

Some number of the people who survive the disease (up to 20%) end up in ICU and up to 7% on ventilators. Without these interventions these people die, and ICU/ventilator resources are limited.
It may be that lockdown is a gamble, but the consequences of getting it wrong are dire.

I don't see it as irresponsible to kill the comments, considering the level of discourse mainstream news outlets see in their comment sections.

Mahon

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#2451413 31-Mar-2020 11:33

Geektastic:

Is collecting your post essential? We have to drive to our PO Box and I cannot actually find anything that defines that.

Same as supermarket. NZ Post is essential service and as long as you follow the guidelines you will be fine. Probably one at a time tho.

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#2451418 31-Mar-2020 11:40

amiga500:

Re. how far you should drive to a supermarket. I think many people may stick to one local supermarket if they are very happy with the queue, sanitising, and other procedures.

My nearest supermarket is about 25 km away. Not that I am allowed out anyway.

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#2451420 31-Mar-2020 11:45

freitasm:

@Geektastic:

Can anyone link to the actual text of the lockdown regulations themselves? The Statutory Instrument or notice under which the rules are legally defined?

https://covid19.govt.nz/help-and-advice/for-everyone/staying-at-home/ seems to be the source of all knowledge.

Thanks. I am trying to find the legal wording.

It's really just an intellectual activity to stave off boredom! I read a letter in a UK paper from a solicitor in which he pointed out that there were reasonably significant differences between the wording of the Statutory Instrument that created and defined the lockdown, what you can and cannot do etc and the interpretation of that by the Police. In essence, he said that the Police were attempting to make law rather than enforce it, which of course they should not do.

I was intrigued to see whether anything like that was happening here. So far it seems generally sensible (in the UK apparently the police have at least once resorted to trying to warn people for buying Easter eggs because they have decided they are not essential..!)

As I say, mainly just to engage the brain rather than pursue any particular point.

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#2451421 31-Mar-2020 11:46

Rikkitic:

amiga500:

Re. how far you should drive to a supermarket. I think many people may stick to one local supermarket if they are very happy with the queue, sanitising, and other procedures.

My nearest supermarket is about 25 km away. Not that I am allowed out anyway.

I think it's well-established one should go to the nearest supermarket. Of course the nearest is 25 km, that's the way it is.

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#2451422 31-Mar-2020 11:48

Rikkitic:

amiga500:

Re. how far you should drive to a supermarket. I think many people may stick to one local supermarket if they are very happy with the queue, sanitising, and other procedures.

My nearest supermarket is about 25 km away. Not that I am allowed out anyway.

Our nearest Countdown is 35km. There are smaller Four Square type operations closer but they have restricted stock in comparison. Our view is that we would drive that far if we really needed something that we could only get by doing so, but so far it has not been necessary. At least 3 weeks more to go though!

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#2451423 31-Mar-2020 11:50

iamaelephant:

In my opinion his article misses two key points,

Some number of the people who survive the disease (up to 20%) end up in ICU and up to 7% on ventilators. Without these interventions these people die, and ICU/ventilator resources are limited.
It may be that lockdown is a gamble, but the consequences of getting it wrong are dire.
I don't see it as irresponsible to kill the comments, considering the level of discourse mainstream news outlets see in their comment sections.

Exactly. His opinion centers on mortality rates and not the morbidity that is overwhelming hospitals in Lombardy and New York .. name your city.

There's no opposing opinion to discuss the flaws in his opinion, and no comments allowed. They are publishing a flawed opinion piece which questions the Govt's current approach. I reiterate that it's irresponsible in my opinion.

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#2451440 31-Mar-2020 11:57

heapsort:
Re the information leaflet: I'm curious about the distribution timeframe. Ours arrived last week.

Ours arrived yesterday, Auckland north shore. I think some of it is affected by the quantisation of mail deliveries, we're already at one every second day anyway and now it may be one a week, so it just turned up on whatever the weekly delivery day was.

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neb

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#2451448 31-Mar-2020 12:02

gchiu:
This sort of article needs a peer review before being published.

And stuff is not allowing comments. Seems irresponsible.

It is marked as an opinion piece, and as the saying goes, "opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one".

Having said that, disabling comments really is irresponsible, they must have known they'd get crucified over it and so disabled them.

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#2451450 31-Mar-2020 12:04

FineWine:
What a load of BS and I hope it flows all over him. See how much toilet paper he conjures up then. When the BS splashes back he will need an outside hose. Oh - then he wont need the toilet paper. Perhaps spray the whole congregation at the same time.

Cut him some slack, he's pentecostalist, he's just trying to help his congregation meet God a lot quicker than everyone else.

dejadeadnz

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#2451456 31-Mar-2020 12:16

Woman allegedly deliberately coughed on supermarket staff after being denied entry

If the allegations are true, it's beyond me why she wasn't arrested and charged.

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#2451459 31-Mar-2020 12:21

iamaelephant:

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking tough questions or having difficult conversations. His article is well-reasoned and considered.

In my opinion his article misses two key points,

Some number of the people who survive the disease (up to 20%) end up in ICU and up to 7% on ventilators. Without these interventions these people die, and ICU/ventilator resources are limited.
It may be that lockdown is a gamble, but the consequences of getting it wrong are dire.
I don't see it as irresponsible to kill the comments, considering the level of discourse mainstream news outlets see in their comment sections.

Another issue is the statnews 'opinion' article he references re: projection of the Diamond Princess ship's mortality rate onto a Western country's overall age structure, is both outdated (already!) and - the author, John P.A. Ioannidis, makes clear - "an estimate based on thin data".

A comprehensive study of Covid-19 deaths and hospitalisations in China, released today in The Lancet has shown a realistic (and scary) age based projection of mortality.
The 'case fatality ratio' of 1.3% of 50-59 y/o, 3.6% of 60-69, 7.96% of 70-79 and 14.8% over 80 y/o projected onto a 'real' population (rather than self-selected 'cruise passengers') is worrying.

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