2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2461973 15-Apr-2020 15:10

Fred99:

Any acute respiratory infection with at least one of the following symptoms: cough, sore throat,
shortness of breath, coryza, anosmia, with or without fever.

A sore throat, cough etc are symptoms of acute respiratory infection. A common cold is an acute respiratory infection.

Ah; so I had to Google what Coryza and Anosmia were .. and now I understand better
Thanks for the learnings

neb: Another thing to consider is that you're signalling that you're being careful by wearing a mask. It may do very little to protect you, but it's signalling to anyone you encounter that you're aware of, and taking, precautions to deal with Covid19.

Now I hadn't considered that; cheers for another view.

Rikkitic

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#2461981 15-Apr-2020 15:26

neb:

I'm not (yet) in a high-risk category but I live in a street with a number of people who are: retired nurse, retired serviceman, retired special-needs teacher, still-working but older special-needs teacher, and others. These people have done more for their country and community than Thornley ever has or will, and f**d if I'm going to gamble their lives just because Thornley wants to test his (deeply flawed) theory with them.

I can't claim to have done what those good people have done for country and community. I'm just old. But thanks for the support.

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cshwone

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#2461985 15-Apr-2020 15:39

As of today there are no active cases in the Wairarapa DHB area. Time to get the barricades out 😁

Tinkerisk

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#2461986 15-Apr-2020 15:40

Batman:
Tinkerisk:

Doesn't sound good to me ... https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52275823

You're in Germany, do you know what they do (not) include in their statistics? The rates are much lower for Germany then say France & Italy.

All Covid 19 deaths are recorded, the (few) who have died at home and the deceased in nursing and retirement homes. Hamburg is a specialty as a city-state. For statistical reasons, a subsequent pathological examination is even carried out in the university clinic to find out the actual cause of death and to answer the question: "Did the patient die on or with Covid 19?" It sometimes turns out that the person - undetected - already had the most serious previous illnesses and the virus was NOT the main cause of death. Apart from normal delays in the reporting chain, our figures are trustworthy.

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TeaLeaf

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#2462034 15-Apr-2020 15:50

Some real interesting studies coming out of Germany on the virus and their predicted mortality rate of only 0.36 due to a LOT of asymptomatics missing in most countries testing, where Germany has tackled the virus from a science perspective and testing is done with really good methods. It is also studying how the virus actually spreads, not on us guessing it works the same as any other flu. It is also studying how does it economy work with the disease. Given they have by far the lowest mortality rate in the 1st world large countries.

Then there is Bill Gates, the guy is already trying to kill polio, he has a scientifically proven 100% safe nuclear waste to power Power plants with ironically Americans being too afraid to buy into what is already used Nuke waste, yet ask how many old nuke missiles they still got sitting around. The guy is now tackling covid-19 trying to fast track a vaccine. He only just picked the chance of pandemic in his remaining years of being similar to the level of spanish flu in 2015 as 50% likely. Is he a Nostradamus or is this a conspiracy bahaha, sorry couldnt help myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oEcxMfwJnw

Anyway with German science and Bill gates like The Lone Ranger and Tonto, I feel there is a lot more hope in returning to normal within 2 years than most seem too.

mattwnz

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#2462037 15-Apr-2020 15:55

cshwone:

As of today there are no active cases in the Wairarapa DHB area. Time to get the barricades out 😁

I wonder if roadblocks will be put in place to isolate certain aeras, for those areas that can move down to a lower level. But IMO we are better to remoinng in a higher level to make sure we aren't getting any new cases before moving down levels

But I am concerned about resthomes, and resthome workers who then go back into their own bubbles, as they are like cruiseships on the land, and the spread is slower and prolonged due to the number of people in the bubble. Many of those testing positive are the staff, not just the residents.

PolicyGuy

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#2462053 15-Apr-2020 16:29

mattwnz:

cshwone:

As of today there are no active cases in the Wairarapa DHB area. Time to get the barricades out 😁

I wonder if roadblocks will be put in place to isolate certain aeras, for those areas that can move down to a lower level. But IMO we are better to remoinng in a higher level to make sure we aren't getting any new cases before moving down levels

If different regions have different Covid-19 Alert Levels, there will have to be checkpoints to stop out-of-region travel.
Otherwise some Wellingtonians would travel to their bach at Castlepoint, as some Aucklanders would travel to their bach at Thames, or would go inter-district to transact 'essential' business such as visit their usual hairdresser

Fortunately, it's relatively easy to do in many parts of NZ, thanks to our 'choke point' geography
For example, as @cshwone suggests, you'd only need three or four roadblocks to effectively seal off the Wairarapa :)

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Fred99

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#2462065 15-Apr-2020 16:56

TeaLeaf:

Some real interesting studies coming out of Germany on the virus and their predicted mortality rate of only 0.36 due to a LOT of asymptomatics missing in most countries testing, where Germany has tackled the virus from a science perspective and testing is done with really good methods. It is also studying how the virus actually spreads, not on us guessing it works the same as any other flu. It is also studying how does it economy work with the disease. Given they have by far the lowest mortality rate in the 1st world large countries.

There's something weird going on with that testing, also in Denmark and I believe in Scotland, conflicting with earlier reports from China (that asymptomatics were about 20%), and here, where if there were many asymptomatics who were also spreaders, then we'd have cases popping up everywhere.

I'd make a wild guess here, that there are some unknown number of adults who have some pre-existing immunity (maybe from some other coronavirus, maybe not), their antibody levels ramp up fast enough so they never get infected to a point where they're active spreaders. That seems to be the case with children, and may be evidence that (primary) schools may be able to reopen without that being a significant concern for rebound contagion after lockdown.

Another possibility is that the test methodology used in these studies is simply flawed. That's quite a high chance, as the more sensitive they make the test, the greater the chance of of false positives. That also needs to be sorted if some kind of method to test for antibodies as evidence of immunity is rolled out for people who were never diagnosed with C-19 but test positive to antibodies, if you send them out into an infected world and they're not immune, then they're at very high risk. For example, if an assumption is made that health workers are immune, then they could safely work with infected patients with relaxed PPE - they better be right on that.

It's also confused by the recent Chinese study that found that the older a patient was, the higher their C-19 IgG levels, indicating that the older you are then the higher the immune response.

Batman

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#2462095 15-Apr-2020 18:23

neb:
nzkiwiman:

I am trying to decide if paying $60-80 for 50 disposable masks on Trademe is "smart"; I know that there is almost no benefit of having a mask if you don't have any issues - they don't do anything to stop the nasties getting in - and a mask is really to stop you from spreading any nasties you may have

Another thing to consider is that you're signalling that you're being careful by wearing a mask. It may do very little to protect you, but it's signalling to anyone you encounter that you're aware of, and taking, precautions to deal with Covid19.

if they don't "do anything", then healthcare staff are ordered to wear them to feel good about themselves?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/413523/surgical-masks-essential-when-dealing-with-all-hospital-patients-staff-told

tdgeek

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#2462119 15-Apr-2020 19:34

Level 3 Guidance tomorrow

Its about safety, not about this or that business.

Businesses were changing their practices to be able to operate in a safer way, he said.

"The critical questions are: is it possible for your business to have social distancing? Can you build in contact-tracing tools or mechanisms to keep track of your supply chain and customers?"

I get tired of this. Banging the same old drum. He has not picked up on anything as its not announced. IMO I feel it will be quite open. IF the business can follow the requites safety practices.

"Retail NZ chief executive Greg Harford said it was awaiting details but had picked up that the "new" level 3 would be more restrictive than the "old" level 3 that New Zealand went into for two days in March."

mentalinc

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#2462129 15-Apr-2020 20:06

tdgeek:

I get tired of this. Banging the same old drum. He has not picked up on anything as its not announced. IMO I feel it will be quite open. IF the business can follow the requites safety practices.

"Retail NZ chief executive Greg Harford said it was awaiting details but had picked up that the "new" level 3 would be more restrictive than the "old" level 3 that New Zealand went into for two days in March."

The press conference on Monday, the PM noted they are working to refine what Level 3 looks like. assume that's where the information above came from as they work with the government to get this clarified for them.

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neb

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#2462131 15-Apr-2020 20:19

Batman:
neb: Another thing to consider is that you're signalling that you're being careful by wearing a mask. It may do very little to protect you, but it's signalling to anyone you encounter that you're aware of, and taking, precautions to deal with Covid19.

if they don't "do anything", then healthcare staff are ordered to wear them to feel good about themselves?

Those are proper N95 masks worn by medical professionals trained in using them in high-risk environments with direct exposure to Covid19 carriers. For Joe Sixpack wearing an Aliexpress tissue while staying a minimum 2m away from others who are highly unlikely to have it in the first place, it's mostly a hygiene signalling mechanism.

Batman

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#2462132 15-Apr-2020 20:23

neb:
Batman:

[quote neb: Another thing to consider is that you're signalling that you're being careful by wearing a mask. It may do very little to protect you, but it's signalling to anyone you encounter that you're aware of, and taking, precautions to deal with Covid19./quote]

if they don't "do anything", then healthcare staff are ordered to wear them to feel good about themselves?

Those are proper N95 masks worn by medical professionals trained in using them in high-risk environments with direct exposure to Covid19 carriers. For Joe Sixpack wearing an Aliexpress tissue while staying a minimum 2m away from others who are highly unlikely to have it in the first place, it's mostly a hygiene signalling mechanism.

Article says "

Its president, John Bonning, said ordinary surgical masks should be worn when dealing with all patients - even those with no signs of the virus."

So they're just a feel good thing to wear/morale booster for the staff I take it?

neb

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#2462142 15-Apr-2020 20:34

Batman:
So they're just a feel good thing to wear/morale booster for the staff I take it?

See my previous reply, which already responds to this. You've just asked the same question again.

Tinkerisk

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#2462146 15-Apr-2020 20:51

Expert consultations are currently underway with the government for steps across Germany.

There are concrete suggestions for this. Different regulations can be derived and adapted from the resulting decisions in individual federal states.
For Hamburg, it looks like we will make future decisions dependent on the number of critical cases. i.e. cautious, gradual loosening while at the same time very accurate, time-delayed monitoring of the intensive care units. Conversely, that would mean that people have to learn to live with the virus. The elderly should receive special protection and attention - but should never be excluded from everyday life. Prescribed protective masks are an integral part of everyday life, with certainty in all public transport. We already know social distance in public and visiting football stadiums and mass events is out of the question for a long time. It is already clear today that the new normal will be very different from what it was before. So there is NO going back to "business as usual".

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