2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2509784 22-Jun-2020 15:23

xlinknz:

Yes Covid incubation is possible after 14 days and that is why testing before exit of isolation/quarantine at 14 days should be required as will now be occurring. It annoying to me the DG of Health and the PM keep saying testing at day 14 is belts and braces as it implies it is desirable rather than necessary.

I was listening t the PM being interviewed on Hoskings, and my understanding she said that the 14 days isolation is the most important thing, and the test is belts and braces. Whereas, I would have thought that the 14 days is the 'belt' and the test is the 'braces', and you would need both for a belts and braces approach and to be assured.

What amazes me is that NZ ever got down to zero active cases, with all the people still coming into the country during lockdown. IMO we should have expected at least a small number of new cases at the border cases...or at least one. How many previous cases were picked up in the isolation hotels or quarantine prior to the first of these new cases last week?

mattwnz

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#2509789 22-Jun-2020 15:26

wellygary:

"Prime Minister Scott Morrison has said the recent uptick in cases in Victoria should not come as a surprise, stressing that containment rather than elimination has always been Australia's strategy for managing the coronavirus pandemic"

https://www.theage.com.au/national/coronavirus-updates-live-cases-worldwide-almost-at-nine-million-australian-death-toll-stands-at-102-20200622-p554t7.html

I wonder why they are wanting to only suppress it, when NZ has proved that elimination is possible?

I hope NZ doesn't move to this approach, if we start to get cases that have come back through the border in the community. The two countries strategies are totally different, so I can't see how a bubble will work. I think it is largely a political thing to keep mentioning it. Not unless we restrict it to certain states that have a proper elimination policy. But they would mean they would need to keep their state borders closed, and require 14 day quarantine between the borders of 'elimination' states, and 'suppression' states.

It is interesting how restricted life in Oz still seems to be for some things, and they are opening things up very slowly. Just shows how much the elimination policy that NZ followed was the best way to go back to a normal life without the worry of the virus. But the problem is obviously the borders and the risk that this massive surge of new incoming travellers cause on the system, and whether that is now compatible with us living a level 1 life. Based on seeing the first Covid adverts I saw on TV last night, I feel that we maybe starting to be conditioned to having to go up to a level 1.5. For example, Contact tracing may again be a requirement.

tdgeek

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#2509797 22-Jun-2020 15:35

mattwnz:

What amazes me is that NZ ever got down to zero active cases, with all the people still coming into the country during lockdown. IMO we should have expected at least a small number of new cases at the border cases...or at least one. How many previous cases were picked up in the isolation hotels or quarantine prior to the first of these new cases last week?

As Ive suggested earlier, Australia have done better than NZ, read that here frequently. No way to get here, but travel of Kiwis from Australia has been there. Still no cases. Now travel here is high, 600 tomorrow from the likes of UK, India, Pakistan, its not surprising, Higher numbers and hotspots compound the end result. Seems pretty experted to me. As long as they get nabbed in border control, and they get a negative test when they leave, all good, job done

mattwnz

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#2509840 22-Jun-2020 15:40

KrazyKid:

As for prior self isolation. I'd still want the 14 day isolation here in NZ. You couldn't trust it otherwise.
And testing before they leave is mostly pointless. It could save a few possible infections on a plane (who are quarantining anyway), but the tests are not reliable enough to be a reason to avoid quarantine upon arrival.

Yes, we would also still need the 14 days here. But the 14 days of managed isolation prior in another country, is what some pacific islands are requiring. I also understand the film crews did this, and I was far more comfortable with the film crews entering NZ as a result. We really want to minimise the risk of any virus getting to NZ in the first place, so they then don't risk infecting other people in the isolation facilities, because it then has the potential to restart the clock for those people. But those people should all be separated from one another anyway, so not sure why they are even considered close contact if they have been separated..

tdgeek

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#2509849 22-Jun-2020 15:43

mattwnz:

Yes, we would also still need the 14 days here. But the 14 days of managed isolation prior in another country, is what some pacific islands are requiring. I also understand the film crews did this, and I was far more comfortable with the film crews entering NZ as a result. We really want to minimise the risk of any virus getting to NZ in the first place, so they then don't risk infecting other people in the isolation facilities, because it then has the potential to restart the clock for those people. But those people should all be separated from one another anyway, so not sure why they are even considered close contact if they have been separated..

Sounds good if you say it fast, but what you are suggesting is lets make sure everyone infects everyone else first before they hop on a plane here, or elsewhere.

mattwnz

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#2509851 22-Jun-2020 15:45

tdgeek:

As Ive suggested earlier, Australia have done better than NZ, read that here frequently. No way to get here, but travel of Kiwis from Australia has been there. Still no cases. Now travel here is high, 600 tomorrow from the likes of UK, India, Pakistan, its not surprising, Higher numbers and hotspots compound the end result. Seems pretty experted to me. As long as they get nabbed in border control, and they get a negative test when they leave, all good, job done

They may have initially said that, but the numbers show that NZ has done better, because we eliminated it. The level 4 restrictions IMO appear to have been the difference, which Oz didn't do. Oz has no elimination policy, and they are still living under restrictions. They plan to go up and down levels to control and suppress it for many months, potentially years, until a vaccine or something else happens. So I can't see that being good long term for their economy and businesses.

There have been reports that the virus's severity is weakening in Italy, so it will be interesting what happens. https://nypost.com/2020/06/21/coronavirus-is-weakening-could-disappear-on-its-own-italian-doctor/

frankv

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#2509852 22-Jun-2020 15:45

mattwnz:

Also why aren't we requiring them to be tested first before boarding the plane, or even requiring self isolation for 14 days prior to leaving, like we required of film crews.

I guess the problem is getting the results back in time, and ensuring people don't get infected after testing and before flying. Also the trustworthiness of whoever does the testing.

Incidentally, the film crew only did 8 days self-isolation before coming to NZ.

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mattwnz

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#2509855 22-Jun-2020 15:50

frankv:

mattwnz:

Also why aren't we requiring them to be tested first before boarding the plane, or even requiring self isolation for 14 days prior to leaving, like we required of film crews.

I guess the problem is getting the results back in time, and ensuring people don't get infected after testing and before flying. Also the trustworthiness of whoever does the testing.

Incidentally, the film crew only did 8 days self-isolation before coming to NZ.

I wasn't sure of the exact length, but much of the US had been isolating well before this as well. They still seem pretty locked down in the US, and significant physical distancing. I have never seen New York streets with such low volumes of traffic, and a lot of shops boarded up.

tdgeek

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#2509858 22-Jun-2020 15:57

mattwnz:

tdgeek:

As Ive suggested earlier, Australia have done better than NZ, read that here frequently. No way to get here, but travel of Kiwis from Australia has been there. Still no cases. Now travel here is high, 600 tomorrow from the likes of UK, India, Pakistan, its not surprising, Higher numbers and hotspots compound the end result. Seems pretty experted to me. As long as they get nabbed in border control, and they get a negative test when they leave, all good, job done

They may have initially said that, but the numbers show that NZ has done better, because we eliminated it. The level 4 restrictions IMO appear to have been the difference, which Oz didn't do. Oz has no elimination policy, and they are still living under restrictions. They plan to go up and down levels to control and suppress it for many months, potentially years, until a vaccine or something else happens. So I can't see that being good long term for their economy and businesses.

There have been reports that the virus's severity is weakening in Italy, so it will be interesting what happens. https://nypost.com/2020/06/21/coronavirus-is-weakening-could-disappear-on-its-own-italian-doctor/

100% agree. I dont know why some here kept saying that. Perhaps poltically motivated to say so

Oblivian

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#2509860 22-Jun-2020 15:59

mattwnz:

I wasn't sure of the exact length, but much of the US had been isolating well before this as well. They still seem pretty locked down in the US, and significant physical distancing. I have never seen New York streets with such low volumes of traffic, and a lot of shops boarded up.

Have you been buried in GZ too long you have not seen the news the last 3 weeks? They're boarded up to stop or because of the rioting.

They've had spikes in most states (M has pointed this out) due to the LACK of distancing and increased 'protests'

And the NG moved in and people don't want to mess with them.

That, is why they're lower now. /Some/ enforce mask wearing and distancing. And so adhere to those. Others suggest it.

And they have had stores forced closed. So no reason to go out. But people still do. Just not the same numbers that allows if there were places to gongregate

tdgeek

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#2509861 22-Jun-2020 16:05

duckDecoy:

lxsw20:

It isn't particularly nice to see people turning against their own countrymen. If you're an NZ citizen you have a right to come home.

I will stay in the UK while I have work over here, but if I lose that due to global recession or whatever. I'll be on the next flight to my homeland. Do you prefer I came back when lockdown started and gone on the dole?

I take your point, but how about we apply the same consideration that you did.

It's benefited you better to be in the UK for now so you're staying there, but if it no longer benefits you you would like to return. You put you first. Fine. But returning doesn't benefit NZ as it puts us at risk of a pandemic, so what's wrong with NZ putting NZ first (like you did). Seems fair to me.

Seems like you are giving Kiwis abroad a one fingered salute. Given their job, assets, etc, its not always that easy to shift home, so many are stuck in a Covid-19 hotspot.

concordnz

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#2509863 22-Jun-2020 16:07

I would like to see a change/improvement in how numbers are reported.

I believe 'border cases' (cases caught at the border),
Should be recorded/reported separately from 'internal transmission.
(Much like cruise ships were not counted in numbers for the countries they were moored at.)

To suggest NZ has 2-3 new 'cases' is inaccurate in respect that these new arrivals have not got into 'general population.

Whereas 2-3 cases from internal clusters or CT are quite different.

I think it is an important distinction going forward.
And would give a far clearer picture.

tdgeek

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#2509864 22-Jun-2020 16:08

Geektastic:

You do not travel unless you're tested clear before flight (Emirates do that in 10 minutes pre boarding). Then you go in quarantine for 14 days on arrival. No more isolation: just enforced quarantine.

So we in NZ do tests that have about a 24 hour turnaround, yet an airline has a 10 minute turnaround?

Batman

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#2509866 22-Jun-2020 16:10

mattwnz:
xlinknz:

Yes Covid incubation is possible after 14 days and that is why testing before exit of isolation/quarantine at 14 days should be required as will now be occurring. It annoying to me the DG of Health and the PM keep saying testing at day 14 is belts and braces as it implies it is desirable rather than necessary.

I was listening t the PM being interviewed on Hoskings, and my understanding she said that the 14 days isolation is the most important thing, and the test is belts and braces. Whereas, I would have thought that the 14 days is the 'belt' and the test is the 'braces', and you would need both for a belts and braces approach and to be assured.

What amazes me is that NZ ever got down to zero active cases, with all the people still coming into the country during lockdown. IMO we should have expected at least a small number of new cases at the border cases...or at least one. How many previous cases were picked up in the isolation hotels or quarantine prior to the first of these new cases last week?

It means that either we were very lucky or that asymptomatic people are very non infectious.

tdgeek

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#2509867 22-Jun-2020 16:10

DS248:

Australia (other than Victoria) low risk.

Yep, and we probably have most Kiwi's that wanted to return from AUS. They have had a lot of opportunities. Now we get others from higher risk nations.

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