2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

1 | ... | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | ... | 2429

13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

#2431739 3-Mar-2020 12:53

MikeB4:

On that note the government needs to lift its game. Right now they seem more concerned about the economic impact than the human impact or limiting the spread of the disease in NZ.

The economic impact will have a human impact. The disease is coming and we won't be able to completely stop it - that's almost certain. We're going to be less able to react appropriately if we've already paralysed the economy. It's not the time to be taking shots at the way our government is handling it. I think they're doing better to protect us than the governments of other nations, with travel bans/restrictions more stringent than recommended by WHO. Tell me what else you think they should be doing right now. I expect that most of those things are already being planned for - if not in national pandemic response plans that were already in place, then added to or adapted from to suit circumstances, at the appropriate time.

Some of those likely actions, then people are really not going to be happy about them - not one little bit. Especially those who still can't see that this isn't "just the flu".

frankv

5705 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3666

Lifetime subscriber

#2431742 3-Mar-2020 13:02

Fred99:

tdgeek:

they [China] also have arguably less capable healthcare, and more difficulty coping with the volume of at risk people.

I don't agree that Chinese healthcare system was/is "less capable". In developed areas they had (before the outbreak) about the same number of hospital beds per 1,000 population as we have here. They went to extreme measures to make very many more available very quickly. That's for the ~20% needing intervention, oxygen, monitoring, secondary infection treatment/prophylaxis etc.

I was going to make the same point, but then did some research. ;)

https://www.numbeo.com/health-care/rankings_by_country.jsp puts NZ at 16th and China at 47th out of 93 countries. Most of the poorer countries aren't even on the table. The index is calculated by (skill_and_competency + speed + modern_equipment + accuracy_and_completeness + friendliness_and_courtesy + responsiveness_waitings + location + 2 * cost) / 9. Dunno how they get each of those numbers though. And you might care less about friendliness_and_courtesy than skill_and_competency. But on the face of it, health care in NZ is significantly better than in China.

https://international.commonwealthfund.org/stats/spending_per_capita/ says China spends 1/10 as much per capita on healthcare as NZ

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/sites/default/files/documents/___media_files_publications_fund_report_2016_jan_1857_mossialos_intl_profiles_2015_v7.pdf is also interesting, and includes China, despite the URL. China has 4.55 acute care hospital beds per capita compared to NZ's 2.59, about the same number of discharges per capita per year, but also much longer average length of stay (8.9 vs 5.3 days). So in this respect I guess their ability to handle a sudden influx of hospitalisations is about the same. China has a lot less GPs per capita, and they see more patients. So community-based health care is probably worse.

I do agree that China went to extraordinary lengths to move clinicians to Hubei, in a way that NZ couldn't, and they also had *large* numbers of people doing contact-tracing.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12767

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2431755 3-Mar-2020 13:03

Fred99:

MikeB4:

On that note the government needs to lift its game. Right now they seem more concerned about the economic impact than the human impact or limiting the spread of the disease in NZ.

The economic impact will have a human impact. The disease is coming and we won't be able to completely stop it - that's almost certain. We're going to be less able to react appropriately if we've already paralysed the economy. It's not the time to be taking shots at the way our government is handling it. I think they're doing better to protect us than the governments of other nations, with travel bans/restrictions more stringent than recommended by WHO. Tell me what else you think they should be doing right now. I expect that most of those things are already being planned for - if not in national pandemic response plans that were already in place, then added to or adapted from to suit circumstances, at the appropriate time.

Some of those likely actions, then people are really not going to be happy about them - not one little bit. Especially those who still can't see that this isn't "just the flu".

The government has been light on what the public should be doing. For example this morning in Stuff (I know don't judge me 😀) there was a story that folk were fronting up at Wellington hospital thinking they have COVID-19 and upset they are not getting tested etc. I they thought they have COVOD-19 they should not be fronting up at casualty they should self isolate and ring their GP. If the the GP thinks it is appropriate will arrange the next step. If they think they are acute ring the Ambulance service who will take the appropriate steps.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Scott3

4177 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2990

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2431757 3-Mar-2020 13:06

First article I have seen about supply chain issues related to reduced production in china:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/119958332/coronavirus-leaves-top-tourist-sites-eerily-deserted

The following are mentioned:

Delays (2 months) to winter clothing shipments
iphones
Vacuume cleaners
TV's

And of course the start of calls for taxpayer bailouts of affected businesses:

I think we should be very careful with this to avoid the "privatize the profits, socialise the losses" trap. Perhaps something along the of the government taking an equity stake in any businesses it saves would work.

frankv

5705 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3666

Lifetime subscriber

#2431787 3-Mar-2020 13:14

Fred99:

MikeB4:

On that note the government needs to lift its game. Right now they seem more concerned about the economic impact than the human impact or limiting the spread of the disease in NZ.

I expect that most of those things are already being planned for - if not in national pandemic response plans that were already in place, then added to or adapted from to suit circumstances, at the appropriate time.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus

has advice specifically for health professionals, travellers, airline crew, and hotels. Reading between the lines, it's very clear that there *is* a plan, and that there *is* concern regarding the human impact.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 10018

#2431788 3-Mar-2020 13:14

frankv:

I was going to make the same point, but then did some research. ;)

I put the proviso "in developed areas" - which I assume would apply to Wuhan - rather than China averages. Wuhan's GDP per capita is approximately double the average for China.

Dyson

Shop now for Dyson appliances (affiliate link).

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2431790 3-Mar-2020 13:20

Scott3:

First article I have seen about supply chain issues related to reduced production in china:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/119958332/coronavirus-leaves-top-tourist-sites-eerily-deserted

The following are mentioned:

Delays (2 months) to winter clothing shipments
iphones
Vacuume cleaners
TV's
And of course the start of calls for taxpayer bailouts of affected businesses:

<article on stuff, can't link as the URL contains "virus hit" with no space, and the keyword filter picks up *hit>

I think we should be very careful with this to avoid the "privatize the profits, socialise the losses" trap. Perhaps something along the of the government taking an equity stake in any businesses it saves would work.

Those 4 items are not important. I dont feel that there are any essential basics from the supermarket that we import from China. Winter clothes, probably, unsure how many non China clothes makers we use, so stick with your wardrobe for a few minths

The issue with businesses is tricky, needs to be handled well (Attn Jacinda) to avoid waste and abuse and unintentional unfairness. How did they/are they dealing with the Whakaari based businesses?

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2431791 3-Mar-2020 13:25

Fred99:

frankv:

I was going to make the same point, but then did some research. ;)

I put the proviso "in developed areas" - which I assume would apply to Wuhan - rather than China averages. Wuhan's GDP per capita is approximately double the average for China.

I was perhaps a little harsh there. I do know from family there (in laws, rellies of the wife) that there are issues with people not being seen in time, so they get sicker or die. Thats probably not a good measure as in Wuhan and surrounds, its hard to knock on 11 million peoples doors, which is probably 4-5 million doors, at regular intervals. Possibly why the fatality rate is higher there, overwhelmed.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12767

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2431792 3-Mar-2020 13:27

I wonder how our low population density will help us especially in that little island south of Wellington.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

frankv

5705 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3666

Lifetime subscriber

#2431797 3-Mar-2020 13:31

MikeB4:

I wonder how our low population density will help us especially in that little island south of Wellington.

And conceivably our relatively poor public transport system will be a help too.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12767

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#2431798 3-Mar-2020 13:34

frankv:

MikeB4:

I wonder how our low population density will help us especially in that little island south of Wellington.

And conceivably our relatively poor public transport system will be a help too.

The last time I was on a commuter train is was jammed packed. I would rather take 4 days and walk into the city and get on one of those germ tubes. Any town that does not have them is better off right now.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Dyson

Shop now for Dyson appliances (affiliate link).

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2431799 3-Mar-2020 13:39

frankv:

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus

has advice specifically for health professionals, travellers, airline crew, and hotels. Reading between the lines, it's very clear that there *is* a plan, and that there *is* concern regarding the human impact.

Looks good.

I wish they had started a register of ALL incoming passengers, from all countries. Nothing flash, where have you been, where are you staying, email address, phone number, where will you be travelling in NZ, when are you leaving. Thats all, easier than an arrival card. If we get infections here, we know where everyone is, including that couple two weeks ago from Iran which was a non issue, now its a BIG issue, as new data updates daily.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2431800 3-Mar-2020 13:42

MikeB4:

I wonder how our low population density will help us especially in that little island south of Wellington.

You mean the mainland? Its just me and three sheep...

msukiwi

2443 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2126

Lifetime subscriber

#2431806 3-Mar-2020 13:55

tdgeek:You mean the mainland? Its just me and three sheep...

Make that at least three plus the three sheep :-)

wellygary

8813 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5298

#2431808 3-Mar-2020 13:55

tdgeek:

Looks good.

I wish they had started a register of ALL incoming passengers, from all countries. Nothing flash, where have you been, where are you staying, email address, phone number, where will you be travelling in NZ, when are you leaving. Thats all, easier than an arrival card. If we get infections here, we know where everyone is, including that couple two weeks ago from Iran which was a non issue, now its a BIG issue, as new data updates daily.

The arrival card already asks for phone/email, how long you are staying, and a broad where have you been...

I'm not sure asking people where they are going to be going in NZ would be overly helpful, as it will likely be fairly broad or very changeable,

1 | ... | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | ... | 2429