2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2521073 11-Jul-2020 12:56

Mask mayhem at US state Illinois "Costco", a chain of membership-only warehouse clubs

CBS Chicago

CBS 2's Steven Graves reports a woman was arrested after allegedly spitting on someone and saying she had COVID-19.

Geektastic

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#2521083 11-Jul-2020 13:45

rugrat:
Guards don’t have the power to detain someone, only the police do.

Is there no power of citizen’s arrest in NZ?

vexxxboy

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#2521085 11-Jul-2020 13:48

Geektastic:
rugrat:

Guards don’t have the power to detain someone, only the police do.

Is there no power of citizen’s arrest in NZ?

you can say it is a citzens arrest but then if you hold them against their will then it becomes Kidnapping

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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#2521104 11-Jul-2020 13:54

In that case it wouldn’t be a citizens arrest in the first place.

How do shop security staff hold shoplifters pending arrival of the police?

Handle9

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#2521106 11-Jul-2020 14:04

freitasm:
These are all but "law abiding citizens".

They know the rules and break them nonetheless.

This is not what "law abiding citizens" do.

I guess you've never read any of the speeding threads.

Scotdownunder

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#2521112 11-Jul-2020 14:27

Since these “absconders” could potentially create community transmission which might result in someones death or serious medical complications I view the deployment of police as totally appropriate and more urgent than petty crime, speeding etc. I am also disappointed but not surprised at the police union’s view.

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ezbee

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#2521120 11-Jul-2020 14:48

Something more for the Professor of Experimental Economics to consider re Trust.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122104787/coronavirus-police-investigating-another-alleged-isolation-abscondee-one-new-case-of-covid19

Police are investigating another alleged escape at a managed isolation facility in Auckland as the Ministry of Health says there is one new case of Covid-19.

A returnee in their late sixties allegedly absconded for a short period of time late on Friday from an Auckland managed isolation facility, the Waipuna Hotel.

They broke and climbed out of a window in their room and climbed a perimeter fence to escape, said Air Commodore Darryn Webb, head of managed isolation.
They allegedly knocked on the doors of three nearby residents while outside the facility. The first property didn’t answer, the second phoned 111 and the third, a couple, apparently spoke to the person.

tdgeek

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#2521164 11-Jul-2020 15:08

MP Hipkins said its hotel not a prison so all I can take from that is that these incidents are expected and is a fact of life, they will do what they can.

ezbee

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#2521167 11-Jul-2020 15:14

Scotdownunder:

Since these “absconders” could potentially create community transmission which might result in someones death or serious medical complications I view the deployment of police as totally appropriate and more urgent than petty crime, speeding etc. I am also disappointed but not surprised at the police union’s view.

Scott.

I can see another side on the Police thing.
Every time there is a nutter the police involved in the incident have to isolate for 14 days,
and they have to take more officers off other duties.
Running low manning rates may also put other officers at risk in normal stops etc, with the current gang situation amplified by 501s.
Particularly in light of recent tragic death, and I'm sure there have been close calls we don't hear about.
I'd cut the police association a bit of slack at this sensitive time.
Its not like successive Governments have given us an excess of sworn officers.

Aviation Security and Border Control , it would seem sensible to extend their powers , they are trained to manage detention.
Consider what they are able to do and do in their daily work before you pass border at the Airport.
Powers as great as the police , perhaps even greater, so there would be the right training.
Some probably have Taser Training as well ?
I can understand the frustration seeing an under utilised resource.

I would also show some educational videos on the flights re differences between a Hotel and a Prison Cell, penalties and sacrifices made by some kiwis during lockdown where there was little compassionate leave .

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#2521170 11-Jul-2020 15:25

Scotdownunder:

Since these “absconders” could potentially create community transmission which might result in someones death or serious medical complications I view the deployment of police as totally appropriate and more urgent than petty crime, speeding etc. I am also disappointed but not surprised at the police union’s view.

The “petty crime” you are alluding to is commonly domestic violence and family harm, so not petty at all. The police officers being used for the hotels are general duties, so not traffic either.

Auckland was already short of frontline staff before this additional burden. When you are short staffed and overworked, mistakes get made, hence the Police Association’s concern.

Edit: ezbee posted while I was composing. Same message though.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

vexxxboy

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#2521172 11-Jul-2020 15:28

Geektastic: In that case it wouldn’t be a citizens arrest in the first place.

How do shop security staff hold shoplifters pending arrival of the police?

they can but only in certain instances, if they think the goods are over a $1000 and between the hours of 9pm and 6 am and they cannot search your bag or body . if those 2 things are not met then they can ask you but you can just walk , If the shop staff or security guards forcibly hold you when they’re not entitled to – for example, by locking you in a room – they may have committed a criminal assault. You may also have a civil claim against them for damages for false imprisonment or civil assault or both.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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Batman

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#2521175 11-Jul-2020 15:43

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

As shown by Australia, once there are cases on the community it can be very difficult to control the spread again, without lockdown or at least moving up a level to try and reduce the transmission rate. Other countries that have got down to low levels, several have also has second waves. Unless it is eliminated then countries have to go in and out of lockdowns to control the numbers. The best thing NZ can do is make sure our borders are watertight so we don't get any cases in the community. If we do get community cases it may indicate a failure in the protocols somewhere or someone has breached those protocols. The problem is we are relying in people doing the right thing, when some people aren't. This means that we have gradually been making these isolation hotels more and more difficult to escape from. Living in a country with covid in the community, is going to be very negatively affected financially over the long term.

Also I got an advertising email today from a NZ business titled is your business ready for another lockdown. If their is a local lockdown in Auckland I can just see people escaping before it occurs, like what occurred in Victoria potentially allowing the virus out as well. It is madness.

AUS is not NZ. They flout far more than us and throw lockdown are loose. We can lockdown any ares that pop up, that locks off spread before it takes off, and as we saw here it never took off, it never got CT over low single digits.

But we do need to treat the law abiding citizens in these facilities as maximum security prisons. They seem to think absconding is ok as its not a "real" crime

% wise probably the same all over the world

Geektastic

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#2521179 11-Jul-2020 16:11

vexxxboy:

Geektastic: In that case it wouldn’t be a citizens arrest in the first place.

How do shop security staff hold shoplifters pending arrival of the police?

they can but only in certain instances, if they think the goods are over a $1000 and between the hours of 9pm and 6 am and they cannot search your bag or body . if those 2 things are not met then they can ask you but you can just walk , If the shop staff or security guards forcibly hold you when they’re not entitled to – for example, by locking you in a room – they may have committed a criminal assault. You may also have a civil claim against them for damages for false imprisonment or civil assault or both.

Sounds like we need a law change.

PolicyGuy

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#2521181 11-Jul-2020 16:17

Geektastic: In that case it wouldn’t be a citizens arrest in the first place.

How do shop security staff hold shoplifters pending arrival of the police?

It's a bluff.
They have no power to stop, search or detain.
AIUI, the 'we reserve the right to search your bag' notice in the shop entrance is also legally dubious.

Handle9

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#2521188 11-Jul-2020 16:33

Geektastic:

vexxxboy:

they can but only in certain instances, if they think the goods are over a $1000 and between the hours of 9pm and 6 am and they cannot search your bag or body . if those 2 things are not met then they can ask you but you can just walk , If the shop staff or security guards forcibly hold you when they’re not entitled to – for example, by locking you in a room – they may have committed a criminal assault. You may also have a civil claim against them for damages for false imprisonment or civil assault or both.

Sounds like we need a law change.

Why? They can call the police who do have the right to do all those things.

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