2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2522310 13-Jul-2020 16:53

Handle9:

Are you seriously claiming that government hasn't substantially changed the way the visas work? Denying entry to every visa holder isn't a substantial change in your eyes? You said:

Before COVID-19, having a valid visa didn't automatically let you in the country. The immigration officer at the border had authority to deny entry and send you back. This hasn't changed after COVID-19.

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#2522311 13-Jul-2020 16:55

Fred99:

freitasm:

"COVID-19: Woman who escaped Auckland isolation named in court"

Naming "covidiots" might be a good deterrent, but it seems likely that there's more to that story. If you're detaining people - even though the circumstances are reasonable - then I'd hope that there are support services capable of looking after the needs of people who are vulnerable for some reason.

Disappearing "out of character" after leaving a health facility in Aus, and missing for 16 days suggests that there's a lot more than "disobedience / breaking rules" going on, so I hope they didn't tick a few check boxes here to say she was OK. I guess she probably isn't, and whatever the problem may be - it might not be something she'd want to disclose in court.

The chances of mental illness at the moment are very high, especially for those who have been locked down for months prior to arriving in NZ.

Just to give some context form my experience - my kids did not leave the house for 12 weeks due to lockdown. That had significant consequences that we had to actively work to manage. We are relatively resilient and somewhat secure financially. If our position was more precarious I can absolutely see how mental illness could occur.

Handle9

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#2522312 13-Jul-2020 16:56

freitasm:

Handle9:

Are you seriously claiming that government hasn't substantially changed the way the visas work? Denying entry to every visa holder isn't a substantial change in your eyes? You said:

Before COVID-19, having a valid visa didn't automatically let you in the country. The immigration officer at the border had authority to deny entry and send you back. This hasn't changed after COVID-19.

Did they deny entry to all work visa holders? Your argument is fairly silly.

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#2522315 13-Jul-2020 16:59

Nothing silly about the argument. Your argument seems to be that every visa holder should be allowed but the rules existed even before.

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#2522318 13-Jul-2020 17:16

freitasm: Nothing silly about the argument. Your argument seems to be that every visa holder should be allowed but the rules existed even before.

The rules that existed before were that you could be denied entry for cause- there had to be a reason which was relevant to the legislation. You could not be arbitrarily denied entry and if you were you could go to court. Now you are arbitrarily denied entry.

I was quite clear about that it may be in the public interest to behave the way the government is but it is also in the public interest for the effects to be reported.

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#2522321 13-Jul-2020 17:22

From a Republican running for congress in Florida

First they make you wear a mask.

Then they make you wear a burka.

Next thing you know you’re running around a black box and Ilhan Omar is your leader.

It took me a few moment but the "black box" is probably a reference the Kaaba in the city of Mecca.

Ilhan Omar is one of the first two Muslim women to serve in Congress.

https://twitter.com/KwCongressional/status/1282293471844368384

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#2522325 13-Jul-2020 17:30

freitasm:

Handle9:

The law may be clear but is it just? There is plenty of reporting about other laws that are unfair and that isn't being complained about very much.

These stories seem in the public interest as they talk about the consequences of the current laws. Not all of those consequences are positive and they should be highlighted otherwise we have governments (of all types) and the bureaucracy running off to do all sorts of mad things.

Immigration law hasn't change in this specific area, has it? If you have an expired visa or if you have a visa that depends on a specific job/position then you must leave the country before the visa expires otherwise you are deemed an overstayer.

Due to COVID-19 existing visas were automatically extended - there was a date limit for this, after which existing visas would no longer be extended.

Also, even if you have a visa you are not automatically granted entry in the country - this was even before COVID-19.

So if it doesn't substantially change how visas work, what's wrong with that?

Agreed but. The end date for the visa extension was set rather arbitrarily at Jul 9. Circumstances haven't really changed and if anything, external to NZ it's got worse. I would suggest the Government should show some compassion to those whose Visas are about to, or have expired, and would obviously have great difficulty travelling given the circumstances.

Edit to clarify I mean people stuck in NZ

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#2522326 13-Jul-2020 17:35

Handle9:

I was quite clear about that it may be in the public interest to behave the way the government is but it is also in the public interest for the effects to be reported.

Agree on that. I just commented that media find the most sobbing stories because that's what sells pageviews.

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#2522381 13-Jul-2020 18:13

freitasm:

Batman:

so let me get this straight - as of last week we are kicking out non residents and sending them home?!

You got it wrong. No one seems to be rounding up visa overstayers. Legally they have no reason to stay here and should leave. This is no different than visa rules were, except that for a while visas were extended but now is back to business as usual.

My apologies - I have trouble reading.

TDGEEK's reply gave me the answer too.

So if you have work you can stay, but if no work, then need to leave.

I believe I have got it right this time?

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#2522384 13-Jul-2020 18:15

Dingbatt:

This thread is starting to outlive its usefulness (edit: for me). In the early days of the pandemic it was a great place to find an aggregation of virus news. Now it’s just the same posters making the same points over and over for page after page, and for one to keep posting political spam masquerading under a Covid headline on almost every page.

if you're talking about me, I really had trouble understanding the Immigration Dept post

thankfully TDGEEK and freitasm explained to me in plain English

I was fearing the doctors and nurses would be kicked out!

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#2522386 13-Jul-2020 18:20

Helen Clark appointed to lead WHO enquiry so we don't get another pandemic like this .... (hopefully I got the gist right ... I'm notorious for misreading things ...)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/helen-clark-who-coronavirus-inquiry-aims-to-stop-the-world-being-blindsided-again

who's to say Clark won't be the next WHO director ...

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kingdragonfly

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#2522475 13-Jul-2020 20:26

New Zealand, of course, mentioned at 2 minute mark.

How countries around the world have responded to Covid-19

CNN

As coronavirus continues to surge throughout the US, many countries around the world have managed to contain the virus or avoid it all together.

Geektastic

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#2522501 13-Jul-2020 22:02

Batman:

Helen Clark appointed to lead WHO enquiry so we don't get another pandemic like this .... (hopefully I got the gist right ... I'm notorious for misreading things ...)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/helen-clark-who-coronavirus-inquiry-aims-to-stop-the-world-being-blindsided-again

who's to say Clark won't be the next WHO director ...

We will and the report will make exactly no difference to anything but Auntie Helen's bank account!

DS248

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#2522504 13-Jul-2020 22:22

Recent Royal Society documents on use of masks. Not relevant here at the moment but may be important if we have a future outbreak as in Victoria.

https://rs-delve.github.io/addenda/2020/07/07/masks-update.html

https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/projects/set-c/set-c-facemasks.pdf

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#2522558 14-Jul-2020 08:29

SA border with NSW / ACT scheduled to reopen 20 July but SA now reconsidering in the light of recent NSW local cases.

https://7news.com.au/news/health/sa-to-reconsider-nsw-and-act-border-rules-c-1163820

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