2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2529428 27-Jul-2020 13:47

wellygary:Snip... If the review determines that the way the decisions were made was not legal, they will be made in a different way next time....

If people start to bring cases saying they were illegally detained, I would suspect that parliament will retrospectively legalise them ......

I would HOPE that they did! (retrospectively legalise them)

GV27

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#2529430 27-Jul-2020 13:52

This isn't some petty loophole about a cop not wearing a hat while writing a speeding ticket (or indeed, an out-of-date oath, which has been the basis for a retrospective law change previously).

An order locking down the entire country that has insufficient legal standing being retro-actively legalised is chilling stuff. If government doesn't have to follow due process for that, then why should it have to follow due process for anything? Don't have a search warrant? Don't worry, we can just change it so that you didn't need one. And so on.

There was a point after which the orders made by Bloomfield are accepted as compliant with legislation. This is to do with the lockdown up to that point, not after.

1101

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#2529431 27-Jul-2020 13:53

They may need to amend NZ's Bill Of Rights .
I think thats the loophole that wont be a easy fix .

This legality issue should have been sorted Jan/Feb when it was obvious what was possibly coming our way.

Fred99

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#2529433 27-Jul-2020 13:55

532 more cases and 6 more deaths in Victoria.

Looks like they're losing the battle - and are going to pay the human and financial cost for not locking down to ~ level 4 for a few weeks.

tdgeek

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#2529473 27-Jul-2020 13:57

GV27:

wellygary:

Of great interest to law school academics and those with way to much time on their hands,

As for its implications for real life not so much,

I suspect the people who were charged with lockdown offences in the early days of Level 4 would probably disagree.

You can't really have the Prime Minister get up and threaten people with detainment for not complying with an order that hasn't got correct legal standing.

Turning a blind eye to it because the PM is being praised for being an effective communicator isn't a sound basis for constitutional conduct.

I suspect the people who now live in a Covid free and practically restriction free society would probably disagree.

Its actually about a point of law, not politics, there are threads for those

KrazyKid

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#2529474 27-Jul-2020 13:57

Didn't we pass new laws when going from stage 2 to stage 1 to block any possible loop hole.
Don't think they were retrospective though...

Either way this seems just a waste of money. I suspect almost everyone now thinks the government made the right call with the lockdown.
It wasn't like the could enforce the lockdown if significant numbers of the population disagreed anyway.

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tdgeek

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#2529478 27-Jul-2020 14:01

Fred99:

532 more cases and 6 more deaths in Victoria.

Looks like they're losing the battle - and are going to pay the human and financial cost for not locking down to ~ level 4 for a few weeks.

Yep, there is only one way IMO

The public wont wear it, and I dont mean the mask. Thats a huge issue now. They never had a full lockdown, and even then, the flouters seemed a lot worse than here. Its a team of 6 million, 3 won't cut it. The public won't comply enough IMHO

freitasm

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#2529480 27-Jul-2020 14:03

All of you making the case of "ILLEGAL!!!!!" are forgetting one thing: who in your family would you like to volunteer to die of COVID-19?

Everyone complaining of government overreach in a situation where it was trying to make good for the people make it look like the government was actually acting in an authoritarian state to remove people's rights forever.

Get a grip. Don't like it here, go to Trump's America where real federal stormtroopers are going around rounding up citizens for just asking for the police to stop killing black people.

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mattwnz

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#2529481 27-Jul-2020 14:08

^^ Exactly. NZ doesn't want to become another Victoria where there are going to be lots of deaths in the coming weeks. I read that there is about a 3 week lag in new cases, to deaths occurring. Someone in their 50's, which isn't old, died yesterday from this virus in Victoria.

This is also a bit of a concern. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122253935/coronavirus-another-day-with-no-new-cases Potentially it could indicate some community transmission occurred, although it is also likely they caught it in Singapore which in transit. I would like to see testing of close contacts in NZ who are associated with this person

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#2529484 27-Jul-2020 14:14

mattwnz:

^^ Exactly. NZ doesn't want to become another Victoria where theer are going to be lots of deaths. Someone in teh 50's, which isn't old, died yesterday from this viru in Victoria.

This is also a bit of a concern. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122253935/coronavirus-another-day-with-no-new-cases Potentially it could indicate some community transmission occurred, although it is also likely they caught it in Singapore which in transit. I would like to see testing of close contacts in NZ who are associated with this person

I was looking at when they arrived, but can't find that. The articile reads as if they had the virus and arrived. When did they arrive and when did they get tested and where were they in between? Isn't that the $64000 question?

ezbee

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#2529485 27-Jul-2020 14:16

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

^^ Exactly. NZ doesn't want to become another Victoria where theer are going to be lots of deaths. Someone in teh 50's, which isn't old, died yesterday from this viru in Victoria.

This is also a bit of a concern. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122253935/coronavirus-another-day-with-no-new-cases Potentially it could indicate some community transmission occurred, although it is also likely they caught it in Singapore which in transit. I would like to see testing of close contacts in NZ who are associated with this person

I was looking at when they arrived, but can't find that. The articile reads as if they had the virus and arrived. When did they arrive and when did they get tested and where were they in between? Isn't that the $64000 question?

Apparently they had 6 days to pick it up on their travels, indeed the act of travelling is pretty risky these days.

Maybe 5 days, seems there were some days in Korea before they were picked, up ? Article could have given us the testing date in Korea to be sure.

Maybe 1 day if tested on the 22nd right on arrival, or do they test later in isolation ?

""The individual left New Zealand six days ago on 21 July and arrived in South Korea on 22 July after transiting through Singapore. The traveller has no symptoms but returned a positive test on arrival.
""

Update, yeh dates not lining up.

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GV27

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#2529494 27-Jul-2020 14:30

tdgeek:

I suspect the people who now live in a Covid free and practically restriction free society would probably disagree.

Its actually about a point of law, not politics, there are threads for those

Like I saw, 'the ends justify the means' is not a great platform for legal decision making! But we will see what the Court says - this has a lot more credibility than the guys who claimed a violation of habeas corpus - the person who has made the review request is a respected draftsperson who has acknowledged the work Bloomfield did in containing the pandemic.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122209707/coronavirus-high-court-to-hear-lockdown-legal-ins-and-outs

Fred99

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#2529495 27-Jul-2020 14:31

It's also possible that the test was a false positive.

We'll have to wait and see. The odds of the case being contracted from CT in NZ is very small.

wellygary

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#2529499 27-Jul-2020 14:35

Fred99:

It's also possible that the test was a false positive.

We'll have to wait and see. The odds of the case being contracted from CT in NZ is very small.

Agreed the odds are low, but the hideously low testing levels are not giving any degree of confidence

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tdgeek

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#2529504 27-Jul-2020 14:40

GV27:

Like I saw, 'the ends justify the means' is not a great platform for legal decision making! But we will see what the Court says - this has a lot more credibility than the guys who claimed a violation of habeas corpus - the person who has made the review request is a respected draftsperson who has acknowledged the work Bloomfield did in containing the pandemic.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122209707/coronavirus-high-court-to-hear-lockdown-legal-ins-and-outs

Again. You are making it sound like the Govt thought to itself, hey its against the law, but its a good reason, so bugger it, lets break the law. Do you really think that was the case? Its not like that and you know it. There have been occasions where clarification was asked on various legal matters. NZ is not a dictatorship that flout the law as and when required

Im fully in favour of the review. The politics thread is the other ones. And before you reply, yes it is, #thinlyveiled

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