Nissan LEAF - General

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#1947155 26-Jan-2018 13:48

frednz:

I've now seen several Leaf owners reporting in forums that their batteries are getting really hot after long drives and several fast charges. I realise the weather is unusually hot at the moment, but I wonder whether Leaf owners should even be attempting long drives on hot days, such as Auckland to Wellington, in 1 day?

And what happens to your Leaf if you keep driving once the battery gets into the red? Does it automatically slow down or even shut down completely?

Also, does the use of air conditioning have much effect on the temperature of the Leaf's battery?

Would the BMW i3, which has a battery cooling system, be able to handle long distances and several fast charges much better than the Leaf? In other words, is the i3's cooling system really effective on 30-degree days?

I have seen my LEAF simply stop charging once....when my daughter and I drove from Auckland to Opotiki and back on the same day....over 700km.

At the last charging stop in Thames the battery got to 55.5C (one red bar).....and just stopped charging at 75%. After that just refused to charge.

It was about 10C that night, so we went for a walk around the block for 20-30 minutes.....and when we came back we were easily able to add 15% more and go home. It had cooled off nearly 5C whiole we were walking. The top end tends to cool down quickly if it's cool outside.

I've only been over 50C a handful of times. The car simply won't let you get near 60C.......theoretically when the battery may be damaged. But anecdotal evidence suggests that when fast charging an already pretty hot battery (over 50C) you're risking degradation.

I'm 53,000+ km and still 92% SoH and the car is 2 years old. I'm within the bounds of what I consider acceptable.

An i3 would definitely be better. It has more range and the battery is cooled.

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#1947157 26-Jan-2018 13:51

frednz:

Here's another new model 40kWh Nissan Leaf for sale for $65,990. The advertisement mentions that this Leaf has a:

- 40KwH battery - up to 378km driving range compared to 150km on 24kWh predecessor

Wow, 378km, how would you have to drive the car to get that many kilometres out of it? I thought that around 250km would be a better expectation?

Anyway, the price is pretty steep, but no doubt it's worth it to an EV enthusiast?

If you can get 7km / kWh as an average than 280km would be do-able. In city driving you're get well over 300km. two fast charges / day might heat the car up, but then you're talking about 600km+ driving in a day...and that's about all anyone would really do anyway. So colling won't matter much when batteries are bigger.

I just spend 2 days driving a VW e-Golf with a 35.8kWh battery. Even on the highway at a real 102kph the efficiency was 7.2km/kWh.....so the range was a real 257km.....that was awesome.

It's a great car if you get the chance. More powerful motor than a LEAF. Very tight handling on the steering. Europcar rent them in Ak, Wn and Ch. Book ahead. They don't make it easy.

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#1947207 26-Jan-2018 15:20

Yeah I was also amazed by efficiency on highway cruising at 100-105 km/h (also around 7 km/kWh) when I took a 2017 e-Golf 35.8 kWh for a spin a month ago, vs my 2013 Leaf 24 kWh (easily under 6 km/kWh at that speed, as opposed to over 8 km/kWh around town). The drag coefficient is meant to be similar (around 0.28 per respective manufacturer's report), weight is roughly the same (~1500 kg) ... so it's magic to my novice eyes.

PS - unfortunately most manufacturers still state total capacity as opposed to usable capacity e.g. e-Golf 35.8 kWh vs 32 kWh, respectively. So then 7.2*32 = 230 km, which is still impressive. Ioniq is one of the exceptions where usable is typically stated: 28 kWh is usable vs 31 kWh total. Ideally both are stated, and labeled as such.

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#1947227 26-Jan-2018 16:10

Linuxluver:

frednz:

Here's another new model 40kWh Nissan Leaf for sale for $65,990. The advertisement mentions that this Leaf has a:

- 40KwH battery - up to 378km driving range compared to 150km on 24kWh predecessor

Wow, 378km, how would you have to drive the car to get that many kilometres out of it? I thought that around 250km would be a better expectation?

Anyway, the price is pretty steep, but no doubt it's worth it to an EV enthusiast?

If you can get 7km / kWh as an average than 280km would be do-able. In city driving you're get well over 300km. two fast charges / day might heat the car up, but then you're talking about 600km+ driving in a day...and that's about all anyone would really do anyway. So colling won't matter much when batteries are bigger.

I just spend 2 days driving a VW e-Golf with a 35.8kWh battery. Even on the highway at a real 102kph the efficiency was 7.2km/kWh.....so the range was a real 257km.....that was awesome.

It's a great car if you get the chance. More powerful motor than a LEAF. Very tight handling on the steering. Europcar rent them in Ak, Wn and Ch. Book ahead. They don't make it easy.

I've always liked the Golf, its a great car. I've had two of them in my youth. How much for the e-Golf in NZ?

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#1947232 26-Jan-2018 16:16

About $62k new from VW dealerships. Haven't seen 2nd hand yet but then internationally people are waiting 6+months to get theirs from ordering new.

Linuxluver

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#1947284 26-Jan-2018 18:18

paulchinnz: About $62k new from VW dealerships. Haven't seen 2nd hand yet but then internationally people are waiting 6+months to get theirs from ordering new.

That's a decent price for what you get - compared to other EVs at the moment.

What will change this is the Tesla Model 3. The basic model in NZ will be about the same $62k.......and the range will be 400km and car is widely reported to be an awesome drive.

It going to be a different world in 18 months.

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#1947285 26-Jan-2018 18:22

Linuxluver:
What will change this is the Tesla Model 3. The basic model in NZ will be about the same $62k.......and the range will be 400km and car is widely reported to be an awesome drive.

It going to be a different world in 18 months.

I am not sure that Tesla isn't going to implode. They are living on borrowed (financial) time at the moment. They really need to get their production going!

I really want them to succeed, but Elon Musk really needs to get his company to get its sh!t together.

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frednz

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#1948227 29-Jan-2018 17:25

http://evtalk.co.nz/used-nissan-leafs-in-short-supply-prices-up/

Anyone waiting for imported second-hand Nissan Leaf pricing to drop will be disappointed.

A supply shortage in Japan and increased sale prices there have led to some New Zealand car dealerships adding about $2000 to $3000 to their Leaf prices as a result.

“We’ve noticed prices have gone up hundreds of thousands of yen,” says Nelson Cottle of Auto Court in Dunedin.

Now this isn't what we want, this won't help the uptake of EVs! But, perhaps it might help to produce better resale prices for your current Leaf so you will be closer to affording this $66,000 2018 imported second-hand Leaf!

Wow, $66,000 just to get about 80km extra range over the 30kWh model....are you kidding? The potential for huge depreciation on a $66,000 Leaf after a year or two must be enormous! I want to help save the planet, but buying an EV at today's prices for 200km or so of range simply seems to be saving car dealers' bank accounts!

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#1948234 29-Jan-2018 17:39

frednz:

Now this isn't what we want, this won't help the uptake of EVs! But, perhaps it might help to produce better resale prices for your current Leaf so you will be closer to affording this $66,000 2018 imported second-hand Leaf!

Wow, $66,000 just to get about 80km extra range over the 30kWh model....are you kidding? The potential for huge depreciation on a $66,000 Leaf after a year or two must be enormous! I want to help save the planet, but buying an EV at today's prices for 200km or so of range simply seems to be saving car dealers' bank accounts!

Even though the longer range 2019 model will probably cost more, I can see more benefit jumping to 60kWh than 40kWh. Sure, the 40 would be plenty most of the time - but 60 gives that much more leeway when needed. The 240km claimed range of the 40kWh car is less than you get after leaving a fast charger with 80% charge in a 60kWh car - around 288km.

I can see that many good cars will come out in 2019, but it might take a couple more years before we see the prices becoming more sane. Luckily my 24kWh is doing fine for the work commute, so I'll save my money and bide my time.

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#1948236 29-Jan-2018 17:40

Those prices look silly.

I've going to UK in November and might swing past UK dealer to see the 2018 version.

Will see if they are interested in selling to me ex vat and shipping it to chch.

Aredwood

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#1948244 29-Jan-2018 17:49

No surprises here. It's the law of supply and demand in action.

If you still have an ICE car, and a driving pattern that suits an EV. You will still most likely be better off just paying the extra. This assumes that you have to buy a new car no matter what.

If you already own an EV, or have a perfectly serviceable ICE car, then it might be better to wait for the 40 and 60KW models to become common. And only then upgrade.

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#1948524 30-Jan-2018 10:46

I still don't see a net economic benefit in EVs when you look at the extra purchase price. Whenever I run the maths the purchase premium needs to be about half what it is.

Mike

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#1948583 30-Jan-2018 12:19

MikeAqua:

I still don't see a net economic benefit in EVs when you look at the extra purchase price. Whenever I run the maths the purchase premium needs to be about half what it is.

But only in the NEW car list?

My 2011 Jap Gen1 Leaf (11 bars) is actually now worth MORE than the NZ$10,600 that I paid for it (new to NZ) due to the strong market desire for them now (when do cars EVER do that???)

AND

It will have 'paid for itself' in about 4 1/2 years in petrol savings alone (not counting servicing or reduced Wof/Reg/Ruc) on the car SWMBO drove for the last 10 years (2007 Corolla) which was already a pretty reliable and fuel efficient car in its time.

the oft quoted "80%" of EV cars in NZ being Leaf's is precisely because they ARE the second hand/affordable cars we can buy here already.

MikeAqua

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#1948594 30-Jan-2018 12:52

PhantomNVD:

MikeAqua:

I still don't see a net economic benefit in EVs when you look at the extra purchase price. Whenever I run the maths the purchase premium needs to be about half what it is.

But only in the NEW car list?

My 2011 Jap Gen1 Leaf (11 bars) is actually now worth MORE than the NZ$10,600 that I paid for it (new to NZ) due to the strong market desire for them now (when do cars EVER do that???)

AND

It will have 'paid for itself' in about 4 1/2 years in petrol savings alone (not counting servicing or reduced Wof/Reg/Ruc) on the car SWMBO drove for the last 10 years (2007 Corolla) which was already a pretty reliable and fuel efficient car in its time.

the oft quoted "80%" of EV cars in NZ being Leaf's is precisely because they ARE the second hand/affordable cars we can buy here already.

Yes I was referring to new (or near new) cars.

Your personal experience of a used car increasing in value demonstrates a shortage of used vehicles. For serious uptake there needs to be new EVs purchased in significant quantities, which means they need to be cheaper.

Mike

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#1948616 30-Jan-2018 13:50

MikeAqua:

Yes I was referring to new (or near new) cars.

Your personal experience of a used car increasing in value demonstrates a shortage of used vehicles. For serious uptake there needs to be new EVs purchased in significant quantities, which means they need to be cheaper.

New EV's are much more expensive in NZ compared to other countries due to the lack of subsidies here, unlike Japan, the US, Europe etc. where there are significant rebates for purchasing a new EV.

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