EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2147353 18-Dec-2018 20:25

Linuxluver:
GV27:
How good is your Leaf at hauling tools or around development/building sites? If you want to compare costs, compare capabilities. Your EV is also paying no RUC yet either.

The Government has just rejected ACC levies being segmented by vehicle safety data on the basis of equity; if you want people who buy petrol/diesel utes to subsidise people buying Teslas despite there being literally no electric utes an alternative then you're going to have to expect those costs to be passed on.

I totally agree the lack of EV utes is a big issue today. We also have no conversion industry to speak of that could bridge the gap.

I also agree it makes no sense to tax something when there is no alternative. Much better to invest in an alternative.

I'm leaving toward the government backing a local option, either new or converted. Otherwise we're all at the mercy of auto makers who are very deliberately not making EV utes and vans.

Van is easy. Done already. Ute implies load carrying, towing, and doing silly things with. Ute will be a giant leap.

alasta

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#2147389 18-Dec-2018 20:55

SaltyNZ:

And that is what ultimately led me to buy an EV. All this arguing over the actually only very slight inconvenience of a currently available 2nd-hand EV - not to mention that the currently available new ones greatly decrease that inconvenience factor anyway - completely misses the point that that if we don't do this mildly inconvenient thing now, we're going to really regret it within our own lives, let alone our children's.

You make it sound so easy. Unfortunately most days I have no choice but to take a diesel bus because only a small proportion of the Wellington bus fleet is electric. It looks like it's going to take years to phase them in.

gzt

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#2147440 18-Dec-2018 21:57

shk292:
Linuxluver: all governments - are basically going to have to go to a war footing and just do what needs doing.....and don't worry about who earned what or who paid for what. Jealousy can't be fatal.

Because command economies and socialism have produced such good results so far, what could possibly go wrong?

He's talking about war economies. Particularly WW2. They were very effective at driving production and innovation.

shk292

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#2147495 18-Dec-2018 23:08

gzt:
shk292:

He's talking about war economies. Particularly WW2. They were very effective at driving production and innovation.

...and leaving a giant mess to be cleaned up later.

Fortunately, we still live in a democracy

SaltyNZ

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#2147532 19-Dec-2018 07:03

alasta:

SaltyNZ:

And that is what ultimately led me to buy an EV. All this arguing over the actually only very slight inconvenience of a currently available 2nd-hand EV - not to mention that the currently available new ones greatly decrease that inconvenience factor anyway - completely misses the point that that if we don't do this mildly inconvenient thing now, we're going to really regret it within our own lives, let alone our children's.

You make it sound so easy. Unfortunately most days I have no choice but to take a diesel bus because only a small proportion of the Wellington bus fleet is electric. It looks like it's going to take years to phase them in.

Yeah, that's a missed opportunity. Buses are one of the easier things to electrify - central depot, predictable routes, generally low speeds with frequent stopping. And once again, although I wouldn't want to live there, sometimes you have to envy how the Chinese government can just get things done when they decide to.

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wellygary

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#2147568 19-Dec-2018 09:32

SaltyNZ:

Sometimes you have to envy how the Chinese government can just get things done when they decide to.

Or Not,

"259 gigawatts of coal power capacity – equivalent to the entire coal power fleet of the United States – is being built in China despite government policies restricting new builds"

https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/10761-China-is-building-coal-power-again/en

SaltyNZ

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#2147581 19-Dec-2018 09:37

wellygary:

SaltyNZ:

Sometimes you have to envy how the Chinese government can just get things done when they decide to.

Or Not,

"259 gigawatts of coal power capacity – equivalent to the entire coal power fleet of the United States – is being built in China despite government policies restricting new builds"

https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/10761-China-is-building-coal-power-again/en

Yeah, they're not perfect by any means, and in some areas they have a lot less control in practice than they'd like... but who really does?

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MikeAqua

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#2147624 19-Dec-2018 09:57

wellygary:

"259 gigawatts of coal power capacity – equivalent to the entire coal power fleet of the United States – is being built in China despite government policies restricting new builds"

https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/10761-China-is-building-coal-power-again/en

A perfect demonstration of why NZ's efforts on climate change are laughably miniscule and ineffective.

Mike

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2147715 19-Dec-2018 11:41

MikeAqua:

wellygary:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Therefore, to help with EV adoption, surely a standard should exist?

Yes,

Just like global car companies should have a standard for which side the indicator stalk is, and countries should have an agreement on which side the steering wheel should be on.... :)

Or which way is change-down on sports-matic gear boxes (Mazda 3 and Mitsi Paj are opposite). End result is I have to look.

Are slappy-paddles standardised? I only have one car with them fitted. Sitting here I can't remember which side is change-down

Or headlight beam controls - forward-back on Mazda; on the Mitsi you just pull forward and they cycle between high and low beam.

Yes, but all of those are more 'interior design' elements of the vehicle.

Without wanting to spend to much time trying to find the information, i did come across this bit around sizes

Motorists occasionally pump gasoline into a diesel car by accident. The converse is almost impossible because diesel pumps have a large nozzle with a diameter of15⁄16 inch (23.8 mm) which does not fit the 13⁄16-inch (20.6 mm) filler, and the nozzles are protected by a lock mechanism or a liftable flap.

Taken from this bit on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filling_station

So, car manufacturers make there vehicles to accommodate the above depending on the fuel type or either diesel or petrol.

Car manufacturers at the moment have no interest in becoming petrol\diesel retailers as the manufacturers make there money through vehicle sales and servicing.

But if pure electric EV's are the future, if there is't some sort of standard around the recharge plug size, there is nothing to stop the likes of Mercedes, BMW, Audi or anyone designing there recharge plug to mimic the company logo.

If they were to do this, they could potentially secure a future income stream.

The manufacturers aren't going to be making the same money through servicing as they do now, with the drive trains of EV have far less moving parts.

The Daimler group or Volkswagen Group could choose there own charging plug styles, forcing owners to only use a charging station for there brand of vehicle. Maybe the infrastructure start up costs would stop the manufacturers doing so, but once you are electricity retailer, you've secured a income stream.

Maybe the manufacturers will partner up with existing petrol companies, e.g. Shell\BP, as these will see there income stream dry up. Even if this is the case, not all towns have both or all of the big players.

This is all a bit of big sky thinking, but if there isn't some sort of standard, it could happen. doubtful, but could.

wellygary

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#2147733 19-Dec-2018 12:05

WyleECoyoteNZ:

This is all a bit of big sky thinking, but if there isn't some sort of standard, it could happen. doubtful, but could.

At the moment there are competing standards, usually government backed... trying to get them to give up national "pride" can be a big ask

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/transportation/efficiency/a-global-charging-standard-for-evs

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electricity-charging/plug-wars-the-battle-for-electric-car-supremacy-idUSKBN1FD0QM

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2147741 19-Dec-2018 12:30

wellygary:

WyleECoyoteNZ:

This is all a bit of big sky thinking, but if there isn't some sort of standard, it could happen. doubtful, but could.

At the moment there are competing standards, usually government backed... trying to get them to give up national "pride" can be a big ask

https://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/transportation/efficiency/a-global-charging-standard-for-evs

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-electricity-charging/plug-wars-the-battle-for-electric-car-supremacy-idUSKBN1FD0QM

Thanks for that.

Having a quick skim read suggests that a standard won't happen, and we will end up with charging points\stations all over the place.

Thinking about it a bit more, even if a standard is reached\agreed upon, and for arguments sake it's the Tesla style of plug, you'll still have the things everywhere.

If your Mercedes selling your electric S Class to rival the Model S, you're not going to tell your customers to use a Tesla supercharger now are you?

No, Mercedes will build there own network to suit the clientele of the S Class buyer.

It's going to get worse before it gets better then, and ultimately this may affect the uptake on EV's

wellygary

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#2147779 19-Dec-2018 13:36

WyleECoyoteNZ:

If your Mercedes selling your electric S Class to rival the Model S, you're not going to tell your customers to use a Tesla supercharger now are you?

No, Mercedes will build there own network to suit the clientele of the S Class buyer.

It's going to get worse before it gets better then, and ultimately this may affect the uptake on EV's

Tesla are an anomaly at the moment as they have their own closed charging network, (you cannot charge a non tesla vehicle at a supercharger - although apparently you can at destination chargers if you have an adaptor),

Its unclear how open (or closed) any future networks that other EV manufacturers develop will be....

tripper1000

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#2147787 19-Dec-2018 13:52

I think you are catastrophizing an subject that is more of a point to note and not an issue at all. 80% of people charge at home, 80% of the time, so no problem there. For the remaining 20% of the time, there are two public Fast-Charge standards, and basically all fast chargers have both. You can think if it as being like diesel and petrol - not a big deal, most stations serve both, you just need to note which handle to pick up.

Tesla with their superchargers is like a V8 supercar with it's fast fill racing refuel system. A bit bespoke, but it still uses petrol & can be filled at a public servo with an adapter. Not an issue if you don't own a Tesla, and minor fiddling required if you do own a Tesla.

As electronics getting more compact, systems (such as Tesla) are able to accept several standards, and as EV's become popular, this multi standard compatibility will expand - think of it like world voltage power supplies. Once you couldn't take appliances to the USA due to the voltage difference, but now you commonly can.

MikeAqua

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#2147802 19-Dec-2018 14:21

WyleECoyoteNZ:

Yes, but all of those are more 'interior design' elements of the vehicle.

Gear change direction is an interior design feature? Lol.

My point was there are many things car manufacturers don't standardise. They are not alone, consider cell phone charging sockets.

Mike

MikeAqua

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#2147803 19-Dec-2018 14:21

ROFLMOA

https://www.electrive.com/2018/12/17/real-fail-at-filling-a-tesla-electric-car-video/

Mike

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