EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2347611 2-Nov-2019 14:24

kingdragonfly:
First, there is a breakthrough new wiring harness, that reduces the amount of wiring from 1.5KMs (in a M3) to just 100M (in a MY).

Wondering why you need a wiring harness at all.... two options occur to me:

a) WiFi/Bluetooth... just run a 12V supply to each component, and send signals to it wirelessly.

b) powerline "modem" in each component/module... again, just run a single wire to each component (earthed to chassis), and have a "modem" which splits out the 12V supply and data.

kingdragonfly

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#2347633 2-Nov-2019 16:16

I preferred wired to wireless for just about anything.

Even wired equipment needs resetting every so often, perhaps once every few years at best.

Anything wireless seem to crash several times more often.

Unless we finish world-wide release of radio bandwidth, such as dumping AM / FM radio worldwide for DAB, there's probably not enough bandwidth.

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#2347664 2-Nov-2019 19:45

kingdragonfly: I preferred wired to wireless for just about anything.

Even wired equipment needs resetting every so often, perhaps once every few years at best.

Anything wireless seem to crash several times more often.

Unless we finish world-wide release of radio bandwidth, such as dumping AM / FM radio worldwide for DAB, there's probably not enough bandwidth.

And it's extremely difficult to hack into a wired system, particularly when it's moving.

PolicyGuy

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#2347707 3-Nov-2019 08:42

kingdragonfly:
such as dumping AM / FM radio worldwide for DAB, there's probably not enough bandwidth.

I'm happy to predict that in 20 year time, maybe less, DAB will have gone the way of the dodo, but that AM radio in particular will still be going strong. The analogue technologies behind AM & FM broadcast radios are simple, robust, reliable and inexpensive, and your Dad's radio still works just as well today as it did when it was new.

I expect that the market space taken up by DAB will have changed to streaming over cellular type technology

Obraik

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#2347790 3-Nov-2019 13:05

PolicyGuy:

I'm happy to predict that in 20 year time, maybe less, DAB will have gone the way of the dodo, but that AM radio in particular will still be going strong. The analogue technologies behind AM & FM broadcast radios are simple, robust, reliable and inexpensive, and your Dad's radio still works just as well today as it did when it was new.

I expect that the market space taken up by DAB will have changed to streaming over cellular type technology

I'm not so sure about that. Some cars, such as Tesla's, have already dropped AM support.

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Guilliman

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#2348132 4-Nov-2019 14:58

frankv:
kingdragonfly:
First, there is a breakthrough new wiring harness, that reduces the amount of wiring from 1.5KMs (in a M3) to just 100M (in a MY).

Wondering why you need a wiring harness at all.... two options occur to me:

a) WiFi/Bluetooth... just run a 12V supply to each component, and send signals to it wirelessly.

b) powerline "modem" in each component/module... again, just run a single wire to each component (earthed to chassis), and have a "modem" which splits out the 12V supply and data.

I wouldn't be keen on that in a vehicle from a safety standpoint, too many question marks about reliability and potential issues like interference. All our computers at home are wired, I even use adapters for the laptop, only wireless devices are phones and tablets.

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Linuxluver

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#2348725 6-Nov-2019 06:11

Existing automakers finding it's not that easy to make a good EV. Their existing competence in ICE cars doesn't guarantee success.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-tsla-killers-not-easy-to-make-evs/amp/

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Obraik

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#2348854 6-Nov-2019 09:39

Stuff has awarded an EV the "Top Exec car of 2019" award - the Tesla Model 3.

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Linuxluver

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#2348913 6-Nov-2019 11:15

Obraik:

Stuff has awarded an EV the "Top Exec car of 2019" award - the Tesla Model 3.

I pick up my own Tesla Model 3 Performance in 49 hours and 45 minutes.

tick.....tick.....tick....

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tripper1000

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#2349036 6-Nov-2019 16:13

frankv:

Wondering why you need a wiring harness at all.... two options occur to me:

a) WiFi/Bluetooth... just run a 12V supply to each component, and send signals to it wirelessly.

b) powerline "modem" in each component/module... again, just run a single wire to each component (earthed to chassis), and have a "modem" which splits out the 12V supply and data.

1) Wires are cheaper and far more reliable than radio's.

2) Wires go through metal firewalls easily, radio doesn't.

3) Radio requires licencing which is a problem across differing jurisdictions. Unlicensed spectrum is already overcrowded.

4) Radio has far higher latency than wires (important with time critical stuff like engine parameters and airbags).

5) Radio has finite bandwidth. With wires you just run a 2nd or 3rd pair to double or triple your bandwidth.

6) RF transmissions might cause health problems, wires don't have this concern.

7) Wireless has privacy concerns. RF transmission gives away your location and a unique ID. E.G. the "Time to Destination" signs on the motorways work by eavesdropping on peoples blue tooth transmissions and measuring how long it takes them to get from one point to another on the motorway. You can opt out of this simply by turning off your blue tooth. You couldn't opt out with with a 'wireless' car.

8) You still need a wired bus to the radios in order to initialise/reprogram them.

9) CANBUS was originally sold as a system to reduce wring in cars. In theory you'd have power and can bus (2x power and 2x bus wires) that did everything. Syspect this is what they've done.

Edit: Link.

wellygary

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#2349041 6-Nov-2019 16:32

tripper1000:

frankv:

Wondering why you need a wiring harness at all.... two options occur to me:

a) WiFi/Bluetooth... just run a 12V supply to each component, and send signals to it wirelessly.

b) powerline "modem" in each component/module... again, just run a single wire to each component (earthed to chassis), and have a "modem" which splits out the 12V supply and data.

1) Wires are cheaper and far more reliable than radio's.

2)

Bing, Bing, Bing, we have a winner...

Given their past history , Car companies are primarily concerned with finding the cheapest/most profitable solutions, and not much else...

In the Pinto case, Ford specifically traded off making a safety change to its fuel tank because it calculated that the losses from the lawsuits of those killed and Maimed would be less than the cost of recalling and solving the fault....

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frankv

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#2349042 6-Nov-2019 16:35

tripper1000:

1) Wires are cheaper and far more reliable than radio's.

2) Wires go through metal firewalls easily, radio doesn't.

3) Radio requires licencing which is a problem across differing jurisdictions. Unlicensed spectrum is already overcrowded.

4) Radio has far higher latency than wires (important with time critical stuff like engine parameters and airbags).

5) Radio has finite bandwidth. With wires you just run a 2nd or 3rd pair to double or triple your bandwidth.

6) RF transmissions might cause health problems, wires don't have this concern.

7) Wireless has privacy concerns. RF transmission gives away your location and a unique ID. E.G. the "Time to Destination" signs on the motorways work by eavesdropping on peoples blue tooth transmissions and measuring how long it takes them to get from one point to another on the motorway. You can opt out of this simply by turning off your blue tooth. You couldn't opt out with with a 'wireless' car.

8) You still need a wired bus to the radios in order to initialise/reprogram them.

9) CANBUS was originally sold as a system to reduce wring in cars. In theory you'd have power and can bus (2x power and 2x bus wires) that did everything. Syspect this is what they've done.

1) Really? I just had to have the fuel pump replaced on my Mondeo, including a $63 charge for "wire". I can buy ESP8266 devices which include WiFi for a couple of dollars each. A car manufacturer would probably get them for well under a dollar. Admittedly you still need a wire for the power supply to all the devices.

2) Unless you go to the trouble of putting everything inside a Faraday cage, radio waves will get in and out easily. A metal firewall, plus metal bonnet and mudguards, doesn't prevent RF from getting from your spark plugs to your radio (if you have a 1960s car).

3) Not in WiFi b/g/n bands.

4) Granted. But lots of things aren't that time critical. E.g. your rear light clusters could each have a device that switches the lights on/off. One wire to each cluster instead of 5 or more. A ms or two of latency will make no difference. Even 100ms would be acceptable.

5) Bandwidth really isn't an issue in a car.

6) Wires with switched loads cause RF.

7) Your car has a numberplate that uniquely identifies it, that is visible to all. If BT is a privacy concern, then so is your numberplate. BT is only used because it's cheaper than automatic numberplate recognition.

8) Nope... mesh networks can self-establish.

9) I think it's an order of magnitude better than you can do with CANBUS. 100m vs 1.5km, so you're not reducing 5 wires to a light cluster with 4. OTOH, they seem to be redefining what "wire" means; it seems it's now a rigid thing holding multiple conductors.

Linuxluver

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#2349210 7-Nov-2019 08:35

The Tesla ute is bring announced / revealed in LA on November 21st.

https://electrek.co/2019/11/06/tesla-cybertruck-pickup-unveil-date-nov-21-la/

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SaltyNZ

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#2349233 7-Nov-2019 09:08

I hope that's not what it really looks like. That's fugly.

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Linuxluver

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#2349255 7-Nov-2019 09:34

SaltyNZ:
I hope that's not what it really looks like. That's fugly.

Agreed. Plus ute buyers tend to be a conservative bunch...... So don't make it too different. I'm thinking it *should* be really good looking, like everything else Tesla makes.

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