EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2364708 2-Dec-2019 14:29

kingdragonfly: A very long video. 90 minutes

EVTV on Tesla Cybertruck Unveil Wardrobe Malfunction

Jack Rickard

This episode we describe the Epic Fail of the Tesla Cybertruck unveiling but discuss the brilliant success of the Tesla design of this instantly iconic truck design. Tesla hit all the key points of what and why men in the U.S. buy and drive pickup trucks and combine it with a manufacturing revolution that promises to change the auto world forever.

Also in this episode, footage of PowerSafe100 installation in Costa Rica.

Is this worth watching? :-)

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tripper1000

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#2367712 3-Dec-2019 15:40

frankv:
PolicyGuy: Stuff: NZ's first inter-city EV truck is on the road

Has a range of only 200km. Seems to me that with a large truck it should be easy to put a large battery at the front of the trailer for 1,000km range. If you put that battery on a palette, it would be easy to swap out a depleted one for a fully charged one.

The batteries are still the most expensive part of an EV. Just because you can fit them, doesn't mean you need them or can afford them. As they said, this truck can do a return trip on the Taupo to Rotorua run in one 8 hour shift, so it's range works in with the business requirements. No point paying for something you don't need.

Also trucks have strict weight limits, so having more battery mass than you need can cause a reduced pay-load with associated profit penalty. This is going to be more noticeable with the heavier trucks such as bulk haulage were every tonne of payload matters. The fuel and maintenance savings are going to have to equal or exceed the costs of extra journey's to achieve the same results. This is where coherent environmental policies (something New Zealand lacks in most portfolios) could help tilt the playing field in favour of the environmentally sensitive options - such as allowing EV trucks to run heavier GVM than diesel's.

Edit: Spelling & I probably still didn't get all the mistakes.

frankv

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#2367735 3-Dec-2019 16:34

tripper1000:

frankv:
PolicyGuy: Stuff: NZ's first inter-city EV truck is on the road

Has a range of only 200km. Seems to me that with a large truck it should be easy to put a large battery at the front of the trailer for 1,000km range. If you put that battery on a palette, it would be easy to swap out a depleted one for a fully charged one.

The batteries are still the most expensive part of an EV. Just because you can fit them, doesn't mean you need them or can afford them. As they said, this truck can do a return trip on the Taupo to Rotorua run in one 8 hour shift, so it's range works in with the business requirements. No point paying for something you don't need.

Yeah, I see that. I was thinking in terms of other long-haul trucking operations.

Also trucks have strict weight limits, so having more battery mass than you need can cause a reduced pay-load with associated profit penalty. This is going to be more noticeable with the heavier trucks such as bulk haulage were every tonne of payload matters. The fuel and maintenance savings are going to have to equal or exceed the costs of extra journey's to achieve the same results.

Hmm.... good points. Are all the long-haul trucks running pretty close to their maximum weights? I have no idea, and had assumed that volume was more of a limiting factor than weight, and that a (say) 10% reduction in volume would be more than outweighed by a 75% reduction in fuel costs. But, as you say, the price of the batteries is significant.

Linuxluver

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#2367803 3-Dec-2019 21:11

frankv:

....

Hmm.... good points. Are all the long-haul trucks running pretty close to their maximum weights? I have no idea, and had assumed that volume was more of a limiting factor than weight, and that a (say) 10% reduction in volume would be more than outweighed by a 75% reduction in fuel costs. But, as you say, the price of the batteries is significant.

The batteries are a one-off cost. How does that stack up against the price of the fuel required across 8 years? Plus the EV truck will have MUCH lower servicing costs. Deisel engines and their exhaust systems are high maintenance compared to electric motors. Plus the cost of climate change....which has been free so far. That has to stop.

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Scott3

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#2367811 3-Dec-2019 21:20

frankv:

Hmm.... good points. Are all the long-haul trucks running pretty close to their maximum weights? I have no idea, and had assumed that volume was more of a limiting factor than weight, and that a (say) 10% reduction in volume would be more than outweighed by a 75% reduction in fuel costs. But, as you say, the price of the batteries is significant.

Generally trucks do run at or close to maximum weight loaded. (Or a customer is paying to have that capacity available, even if they don't use 100% of it). The slang term for the situation where the truck cannot be loaded to it's payload, as it runs out of room is "bulked out".

Pritty much every tanker truck is limited by weight, not volume, as are dump trucks & logging trucks. The give away is that they are well shorter than the legal max of 4.25m tall. If volume was an issue, they would just build the trucks taller.

For trucks like flat decks, Box bodies, curtain siders etc, it really depends on what the cargo is. As an example, if a flatdeck is reinforcing steel, it will be fully loaded with a load hight well below a meter. For a curtain sider carrying beer, weight would be the limiting factor, if it was transporting empty 20L drums, volume would be limiting.

Car transporters are typically volume limited.

Buses are typically volume limited (although they can have issues with reaching max front axle load)

Of note, with containers, some trucks are designed just to carry empty (or light) containers. (the trucks that can fit three twenty foot containers).

In conclusion (except for rare cases) - perhaps transporting textiles is one of them, weight is a big deal in the trucking industry. This is one reason large trucks rarely carry spare tires anymore. By ditching the weight of the spares (sometimes three different sizes), plus a truck capable jack & tools, this weight can be added to the payload. And being able to sell more payload means more money is made. In the rare event of a flat tire, a tire service truck will be called.

kingdragonfly

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#2370105 7-Dec-2019 19:29

It's pretty obivous that self-driving cars are going to be electric vehicles. It's just easier for a computer to drive by wire.

Here's a video of classic "driving like a nervous learner" when confronted with other traffic.

First, the self-driving car called "Zoox " at a four way intersection, Zoox ignores / can't read other driver's turn signals. Zoox only turns when traffic is gone.

Second at a highway merge, a human was clearly slowing down and staying behind to allow Zoox to merge. However again the Zoox only merged when traffic was gone, and Zoox's timidity forced to use the entire merge lane, instead of a small portion.

I also noted Zoox doesn't read speed limit signs, using downloaded maps instead. This mean if there's construction it's likely to be driving too fast.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Tesla reads speed limit signs. I'm not sure if Tesla understands turn signals though.

The $800M Robo Taxi That Could Beat Uber

Bloomberg

Zoox is on the verge of transforming the entire transportation industry by creating self-driving robots that will become the ride-shares of the future.

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#2370176 7-Dec-2019 22:12

kingdragonfly:

I also noted Zoox doesn't read speed limit signs, using downloaded maps instead. This mean if there's construction it's likely to be driving too fast.

I'm not sure this is a killer problem, assuming ubiquitous Internet connectivity. Equally, "electronic signs" that can send some sort of standardised "speed limit" signal would solve the problem.

kingdragonfly

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#2370294 8-Dec-2019 06:48

I read that Tesla does read speed limit signs.

Here's the first part of an article

First Responders Work With Developers to ‘Teach’ Self-Driving Cars to Pull Over

By Ira Boudway | Bloomberg News

On a dark Friday morning in November, a police officer began tailing a Tesla Model S traveling 70 mph on California’s Route 101, between San Francisco International Airport and Palo Alto. The car’s turn signal was blinking, but it kept passing exits. The officer pulled up alongside and saw the driver in a head-slumped posture, and guessed the car was driving itself under what Tesla calls Autopilot. However, the officer’s lights and sirens failed to rouse the driver.

Every Tesla is equipped with hardware the automaker says could someday enable its vehicles to drive themselves on entire trips, from parking space to parking space, with no driver input. Currently, Tesla limits the system to guiding cars from on-ramps to off-ramps on highways, but in this example the car kept driving, safely, with a seemingly incapacitated driver. But it didn’t know how to obey police sirens and pull over.

In this case, there was no way for police to commandeer the car, so they improvised; while a patrol car blocked traffic from behind, the officer following the Tesla pulled in front and began to slow down until both cars came to a stop.

The incident encapsulates both the hopes and anxieties of a driverless future. The 45-year-old Tesla driver failed a field sobriety test, according to the police, and was charged with driving under the influence. The car, which seems to have navigated about 10 miles of nighttime highway driving without the aid of a human, may well have saved a drunk driver from harming himself or others. Neither Tesla nor the police, however, are ready for people to begin relying on the technology in this way.
...

Obraik

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#2370558 8-Dec-2019 17:29

kingdragonfly: I read that Tesla does read speed limit signs.

Here's the first part of an article

First Responders Work With Developers to ‘Teach’ Self-Driving Cars to Pull Over

By Ira Boudway | Bloomberg News

On a dark Friday morning in November, a police officer began tailing a Tesla Model S traveling 70 mph on California’s Route 101, between San Francisco International Airport and Palo Alto. The car’s turn signal was blinking, but it kept passing exits. The officer pulled up alongside and saw the driver in a head-slumped posture, and guessed the car was driving itself under what Tesla calls Autopilot. However, the officer’s lights and sirens failed to rouse the driver.

Every Tesla is equipped with hardware the automaker says could someday enable its vehicles to drive themselves on entire trips, from parking space to parking space, with no driver input. Currently, Tesla limits the system to guiding cars from on-ramps to off-ramps on highways, but in this example the car kept driving, safely, with a seemingly incapacitated driver. But it didn’t know how to obey police sirens and pull over.

In this case, there was no way for police to commandeer the car, so they improvised; while a patrol car blocked traffic from behind, the officer following the Tesla pulled in front and began to slow down until both cars came to a stop.

The incident encapsulates both the hopes and anxieties of a driverless future. The 45-year-old Tesla driver failed a field sobriety test, according to the police, and was charged with driving under the influence. The car, which seems to have navigated about 10 miles of nighttime highway driving without the aid of a human, may well have saved a drunk driver from harming himself or others. Neither Tesla nor the police, however, are ready for people to begin relying on the technology in this way.
...

Model S with AP1 hardware (2015ish or older) can. This was when Tesla was using hardware and software from MobileEye. However, the two companies had a falling out and Tesla started developing this inhouse and Autopilot hasn't picked up the capability yet, although an update this week has added functionality to warn and take action if it sees you're running a stop sign or red light. They rely on GPS data and up to date speed zone information to know when to slow down.

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Linuxluver

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#2370716 8-Dec-2019 21:56

kingdragonfly: I read that Tesla does read speed limit signs.

Here's the first part of an article

First Responders Work With Developers to ‘Teach’ Self-Driving Cars to Pull Over

By Ira Boudway | Bloomberg News

On a dark Friday morning in November, a police officer began tailing a Tesla Model S traveling 70 mph on California’s Route 101, between San Francisco International Airport and Palo Alto. The car’s turn signal was blinking, but it kept passing exits. The officer pulled up alongside and saw the driver in a head-slumped posture, and guessed the car was driving itself under what Tesla calls Autopilot. However, the officer’s lights and sirens failed to rouse the driver.

Every Tesla is equipped with hardware the automaker says could someday enable its vehicles to drive themselves on entire trips, from parking space to parking space, with no driver input. Currently, Tesla limits the system to guiding cars from on-ramps to off-ramps on highways, but in this example the car kept driving, safely, with a seemingly incapacitated driver. But it didn’t know how to obey police sirens and pull over.

In this case, there was no way for police to commandeer the car, so they improvised; while a patrol car blocked traffic from behind, the officer following the Tesla pulled in front and began to slow down until both cars came to a stop.

The incident encapsulates both the hopes and anxieties of a driverless future. The 45-year-old Tesla driver failed a field sobriety test, according to the police, and was charged with driving under the influence. The car, which seems to have navigated about 10 miles of nighttime highway driving without the aid of a human, may well have saved a drunk driver from harming himself or others. Neither Tesla nor the police, however, are ready for people to begin relying on the technology in this way.
...

This can't happen. If you fail to respond to prompts to slightly move the steering wheel, the car will pull over and stop by itself.

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Linuxluver

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#2370739 8-Dec-2019 22:32

GM and LG are going to build a gigafactory near Lordstown, Ohio, capable of producing 30GWh of batteries. THey finally realise what they need to do......

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gm-koreas-lg-chem-to-build-electric-vehicle-battery-factory-in-ohio-2019-12-05

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tripper1000

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#2374229 12-Dec-2019 13:15

kingdragonfly: It's pretty obivous that self-driving cars are going to be electric vehicles. It's just easier for a computer to drive by wire.

Here's a video of classic "driving like a nervous learner" when confronted with other traffic.

........ However again the Zoox only merged when traffic was gone, and Zoox's timidity forced to use the entire merge lane, instead of a small portion.

The New Zealand Road code rules for merging say in part:

use the whole length of the on-ramp to adjust your speed...

And

don't enter the motorway at a sharp angle {i.e. don't use only a small portion of the merging lane}

So an advantage with autonomous cars illustrated here is that they don't forget the road code and start driving like Lemmings.

Cutting in/using a small portion of the merge lane is a poor defensive driving technique. If one uses the whole ramp to speed match and gradually "merges" into the flow of traffic but doesn't see a car in the blind-spot, it gives the other driver the most time possible to make a small and gentle adjustment to avoid the collision. If you merge abruptly, you give them no time to mitigate your mistake and avoid a collision. Even if they manage to avoid you by slamming on the brakes, this is likely to cause nose-to-tails behind them, so it can still be a jerk move.

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#2374236 12-Dec-2019 13:43

kingdragonfly:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Tesla reads speed limit signs.

You can get the Ford Focus with "traffic signal recognition" that will read speed signs and nag you for going too fast, it also works well in construction zones too..

its becoming pretty standard tech these days....