EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2411664 2-Feb-2020 19:06

RobDickinson:

Model 3 is lots cheaper than a BMW or audi.

If you can deal with the leafs range it's a much better town/commute car than any ice car used, will typically pay for itself.

Eh, it's about the same really. An entry level 3 Series is $75k + ORC...but you need to spend around $89k on the BMW to start getting the performance stats of even the Model 3 SR+

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RobDickinson

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#2411666 2-Feb-2020 19:08

Yeah you can't compare entry level.

M3p is 106k vs 162k for the M3 etc

Obraik

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#2411677 2-Feb-2020 19:40

RobDickinson:

Yeah you can't compare entry level.

M3p is 106k vs 162k for the M3 etc

Well you can, and that certainly is what people have been doing. It's why the 3 Series has had a large slump since the Model 3 has come out.

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RobDickinson

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#2411678 2-Feb-2020 19:42

BMW released a new 3 series early last year, what a huge mistake Imo.

tdgeek

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#2411682 2-Feb-2020 19:45

RobDickinson:

Model 3 is lots cheaper than a BMW or audi.

If you can deal with the leafs range it's a much better town/commute car than any ice car used, will typically pay for itself.

Leaf? Given the comment here on its issues, and its out of date tech, i,e. cooling, Im surprised you recommend that.

RobDickinson

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#2411686 2-Feb-2020 19:47

For a $10-15k city run around its fine esp in nz climate

Obraik

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#2411687 2-Feb-2020 19:47

tdgeek:

Leaf? Given the comment here on its issues, and its out of date tech, i,e. cooling, Im surprised you recommend that.

Yeah I'd go with the MG over the Leaf. Currently $10k cheaper with about the same range but most importantly, it has active thermal control for its batteries

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RobDickinson

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#2411688 2-Feb-2020 19:48

As a new car for sure I wouldn't recommend the leaf

tdgeek

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#2411691 2-Feb-2020 19:51

RobDickinson:

Model 3 is lots cheaper than a BMW or audi.

How is the hardware quality, the software quality? I do appreciate the tech they use, is it proven? I do appreciate their battery tech, well Panasonic's

I do get the impression from this recent handful of posts, where my post seemed to create terms such as entry level etc. Not sure where I mentioned entry level, let alone the Leaf which in this thread is not recommended. So why recommend it?

tdgeek

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#2411692 2-Feb-2020 19:52

RobDickinson:

For a $10-15k city run around its fine esp in nz climate

Im sure it would be, but why has my one post generated budget/used/entry level based replies?

RobDickinson

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#2411693 2-Feb-2020 19:56

tdgeek:

RobDickinson:

For a $10-15k city run around its fine esp in nz climate

Im sure it would be, but why has my one post generated budget/used/entry level based replies?

Ah on phone missed your username, do and think whatever you like bro I'll see if there's a block function on this forum..

tdgeek

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#2411696 2-Feb-2020 20:00

RobDickinson:

tdgeek:

RobDickinson:

For a $10-15k city run around its fine esp in nz climate

Im sure it would be, but why has my one post generated budget/used/entry level based replies?

Ah on phone missed your username, do and think whatever you like bro I'll see if there's a block function on this forum..

Whats up with you? I posted a post, I then get replies that are based around budget/used/entry level, so I ask why? Simple question, and you blow up. Well, ok.

Obraik

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#2411697 2-Feb-2020 20:01

tdgeek:

How is the hardware quality, the software quality? I do appreciate the tech they use, is it proven? I do appreciate their battery tech, well Panasonic's

I do get the impression from this recent handful of posts, where my post seemed to create terms such as entry level etc. Not sure where I mentioned entry level, let alone the Leaf which in this thread is not recommended. So why recommend it?

I've been in a new 3 Series and I've obviously been in a Model 3. The actual interior material quality feels about the same. The Model 3 is obviously different in that its interior is set up different with just the touch screen wheras the BMW is full of buttons, dials and air vents. Whereas Tesla gives you new features via software updates for free, BMW has reacted to this but have gone the greedy way and asks for money. For example, BMW released a new update that adds native dash cam functionality however you have to pay $20 a month for the feature to be active, which is quite limited compared to what Tesla added. Another update adds auto-high beams but you have to pay $250 to unlock it. So Tesla is obviously quite far ahead of them on tech.

This whole entry level vs premium discussion was brought up because you mentioned price parity. To catch you up, the argument is that at the entry level (your Swifts, Yaris, etc) there isn't price parity yet. However at the premium end it's pretty much there already.

When it comes to Leaf, I absolutely would not recommend buying a brand new Leaf due to all the reasons I've mentioned previously. However, for a second hand $10k runabout which one plans on only taking to work, school or the shops then a second hand Leaf is fine.

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tdgeek

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#2411704 2-Feb-2020 20:19

Obraik:

tdgeek:

How is the hardware quality, the software quality? I do appreciate the tech they use, is it proven? I do appreciate their battery tech, well Panasonic's

I do get the impression from this recent handful of posts, where my post seemed to create terms such as entry level etc. Not sure where I mentioned entry level, let alone the Leaf which in this thread is not recommended. So why recommend it?

I've been in a new 3 Series and I've obviously been in a Model 3. The actual interior material quality feels about the same. The Model 3 is obviously different in that its interior is set up different with just the touch screen wheras the BMW is full of buttons, dials and air vents. Whereas Tesla gives you new features via software updates for free, BMW has reacted to this but have gone the greedy way and asks for money. For example, BMW released a new update that adds native dash cam functionality however you have to pay $20 a month for the feature to be active, which is quite limited compared to what Tesla added. Another update adds auto-high beams but you have to pay $250 to unlock it. So Tesla is obviously quite far ahead of them on tech.

This whole entry level vs premium discussion was brought up because you mentioned price parity. To catch you up, the argument is that at the entry level (your Swifts, Yaris, etc) there isn't price parity yet. However at the premium end it's pretty much there already.

When it comes to Leaf, I absolutely would not recommend buying a brand new Leaf due to all the reasons I've mentioned previously. However, for a second hand $10k runabout which one plans on only taking to work, school or the shops then a second hand Leaf is fine.

Thank you, at least someone here can have a rational discussion.

Price parity doesn't mean entry level, it means price parity. As you know my pet example is the Kona, where the EV is about double. You get $40k Kona quality, or you get the same quality but in an 80k package. Where does premium level kick in? 70k? 80k?

Thanks for the details on the 3 and T3. Doesn't Tesla provide you with a car that has features that you need to pay extra for so they unlock them? So the car you bought has those features, and you have paid for them. But you need to pay extra to unlock them.

We have read about door panel issues, paint issues, etc. Thats not really what I see positive when dealing with an Apple type brand, preceded as premium quality. Except that Apple was premium hardware and software quality. Personally I see Tesla as 1.0. Keen to see how they progress though.

Runabout Leaf? No, I dont agree, you will pay a good % more to get an older car as in the Leaf, as compared to a newer lower km ICE, and with low weekly mileage, you won't recover that extra

kingdragonfly

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#2411721 2-Feb-2020 21:10

I didn't realize the EV freebate was scrapped, and yet another proposal has taken its place, with only a vague implementation date of 2021.

The Government's proposal for a sweeping fuel-efficient vehicle policy is being criticised because it doesn't apply to the majority of cars being sold.

It would only apply to newly-imported used and brand new light vehicles from 2021 onwards, and would only hit those vehicles when they are sold for the first time - taking in about only a quarter of vehicle sales.

School Strike 4 Climate NZ criticised the proposal and said all vehicle sales should be affected by fuel efficiency standards.

The "feebate" scheme wouldn't cost the taxpayer anything, instead using money gained by putting a fee on imported high-emissions cars in order to make imported hybrids, electric cars, and other efficient vehicles cheaper with a subsidy.

The policy would make some cars up to $8000 cheaper - while others would be $3000 more expensive.

The scheme would not just apply to electric vehicles: It would make efficient cars like a Suzuki Swift or Toyota Corolla cheaper, and bring the cost of hybrids to near-parity with non-hybrid cars by bringing their costs down by as much as $6800.

But it would also make New Zealand's most popular new imported car - the Ford Ranger - $2250 more expensive...

So if you want to use as little imported and Earth-warming petrol as possible at a good price, I'd recommend a Prius.

I know it still uses petrol, but at least it's super reliable, has fantastic reliability, and is good enough for most people, even with children.

No one's going to steal any Prius for a joy ride, and for old used models, if you get a dent in the door, who cares?

Treasury’s 2019 suvery says the typical used price is between $9,000 to $15,000. For the 20 used models in 2015 to 2018, it is by far the cleanest at 80 CO2 g/km, about half that of a small ICE car.

Even replacing the batteries is not a show stopper, if the price is right. Prius batteries range from $1,000 to $3,500, mostly dependent on the warranty.

Given the bathtub curve, I'd go for the shorter warranty.

I know this is in the EV thread, so likely not to be a popular post.

My next car purchase will be an EV, but again I'm waiting on some additional government subsidy, beyond the obviously substantial fuel tax savings (somewhere around $10,000 tax saving over the lifetime of an EV)

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