Lime scooters

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#2186255 24-Feb-2019 12:01

tdgeek:

I drive a bit, I see plenty of cycles, I dont see an issue. I don't say there are NO issue nor did I say skateboards have NO issues. Stuff all Limes in NZ test they occupy the news daily. Deduct the clickbait factor and the leftover is a problem. They are faster, harder to ride compared to most other devices, and the law decided to bypass them.

I disagree that they are harder to ride - in fact I think many of the problems are because they are so easy to ride.

I own an e-scooter and when I take it places people are quite curious and eager to give it a go - people who usually wouldn't ride a bike, motorbike, inline skates and definitely not a skateboard.

I tried segway, hoverboard, unicycle, ripstick etc... and all took time to learn to even go in a straight line (I could never get the ripstick). People can hop on an e-scooter and go right from the start.

Combine that with speed and you may have a problem but let's educate rather than regulate.

They do solve the first/last mile problem but I also think they are a good solution for the 3-4km commutes.

On another note, a friend commented about seeing Lime's sprawled all over footpaths and the such which makes me wonder if it's anti-Limers kicking them over. To end your ride on a lime you have to scan the QR code. You can either a) drop the scooter on the ground, bend over and scan the QR code b) hold the scooter upright with one hand, dig your phone out and scan the QR code then let it drop to the ground and walk off or c) put the stand down so the scooter stands upright, then you have both hands free to dig out your phone.

Surely c) is the easiest option in which case you should see them all parked upright with only the odd one falling over?

jonathan18

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#2186256 24-Feb-2019 12:04

I'm assuming you learnt to ride a bike as a kid, whereas your experience with scooters is far more recent? I'd also think you may be at risk of generalising based on your own personal experience which, I suggest, is not representative.

Having taught my kids to use scooters and bikes, I know which they found trickier; and this, I would suggest, is by far the most common experience.

Most kids will learn to scooter well before they learn to bike (without training wheels). The transition from push scooter to e-scooter isn't significant - my 11-year-old had it down pat in a few minutes.

And I've watched my kids trying to use a skateboard, and I for sure would put that in a totally different category to biking or scootering!

tdgeek

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#2186258 24-Feb-2019 12:13

jonathan18:

I'm assuming you learnt to ride a bike as a kid, whereas your experience with scooters is far more recent? I'd also think you may be at risk of generalising based on your own personal experience which, I suggest, is not representative.

Having taught my kids to use scooters and bikes, I know which they found trickier; and this, I would suggest, is by far the most common experience.

Most kids will learn to scooter well before they learn to bike (without training wheels). The transition from push scooter to e-scooter isn't significant - my 11-year-old had it down pat in a few minutes.

And I've watched my kids trying to use a skateboard, and I for sure would put that in a totally different category to biking or scootering!

I rode bikes as a kid and scooters. The same now. If you are going slow, the bike is easy to balance, the scooter not as easy IMHO, as you have your body and the ability to move the arms quickly, on a cycle it just rolls on, nit a lot of correction needed. If you are new, its harder IMHO. Maybe harder is the wrong word, its easier to over correct as you can react very quickly as compared to a cycle.

I am in favour of e scooters. Very much so. The last mile argument for commutes is a biggie. Grab that scooter to shoot down to the store, etc. Less traffic

mattwnz

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#2186280 24-Feb-2019 13:48

Bikes should be more stable than scooters, especially at speed, due to the Gyroscope effect of the large wheels on a bike, which help to keep it upright. While I am for these electric modes of transport, I do wonder why the councils haven't created dedicated cycle lanes for both bikes and scooters. The have somewhat in wellington, but they are less than ideal with some one footpaths with questionable visability. We do already have that 'think big' national cycleway which seems underused. IMO footpaths should be kept for pedestrians, or nothing faster than 10km/hr, and aren't safe for vehicles. Especially where you have cars coming out of driveways, where there is little viability due to the angles. I have had kids on scooters run into the side of my car who were riding at speed on the footpath, due to the visibility problem, and is probably why it is currently illegal to ride a bike on the footpath. So bikes/scooters should be on the next layer out from the footpath. IMO it is all common sense, and a couple of decades ago my town used to have proper dedicated cycle lanes, that worked quite well. But then they decided to sandbast the cycle lane symbols away, so now they aren't considered cycle lanes, but car park bays, as people wanted to be able to park their cars on them. But they also removed roadside recycling, so not exactly progressive...

Benoire

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#2186398 24-Feb-2019 15:58

@mattwnz

Main issue with building a network, especially in Auckland, is the space trade off and political will. While a Vision Zero approach means that we must reclaim space from cars to ensure the safety of our micro-mobility and bike users, its the battle with the general public and the democratic process which determines to some extent; our cycle way program for Auckland has taken a long time due to local residential conversations and dealing with the multitude of other users as well as the funding issues that have only really been resolved with this new governments GPS and the NZTA funding change as a result.

In terms of design, we always start from the outside in and consider peds first, followed by cycle users (all types, not just bikes) and finally the various considerations for vehicles. With a rear small berm, there is sufficient visibility for driveways and drivers exiting or entering will be able to see any oncoming users.

eBike vs kids speed differential on cycle ways is our next challenge and something that will require a further widening to almost 3m to allow for overtaking safely... so, single direction cycle facilities of 3m and bi-directional of maybe 5m, some streets will require considerable re-routing of general traffic to make that work & conscious modal choices.

Reality is that design is quite easy and we understand what is required, its the strategic planning part that needs evolving with complete political support otherwise projects just stall or a network is prioritised.

Dratsab

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#2186426 24-Feb-2019 17:31

I think e-scooters are a great thing, they just need to be used with a bit of responsibility which a small minority will not be capable of. But there does need to be some regulation. I'd be in favour of helmets (seriously, it doesn't take much of a knock to get concussion and only a little bit more to get into the more lasting brain damage area), use on footpaths at low speeds only (up to around 10km - around as fast as an average jogger) otherwise on the roads like bikes.

A little like tdgeek I think e-scooters are harder to ride than bikes. That said I didn't have one as a kid and although I've been riding bikes since I was small and have a number of years club racing under my belt, when I tried a scooter a few months ago I didn't like it at all. But that's just me, maybe I simply need a bit more time on one.

Wonder how long it'll be before someone Limes their way from Cape Reinga to Bluff.

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mrphil

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#2186454 24-Feb-2019 18:49

If they had to update the firmware, will they have to do it manually or each scooter has internet?

kingdragonfly

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#2186657 25-Feb-2019 08:53

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/110664625/christchurch-man-charged-for-111-lime-scooter-rides-he-did-not-take

Christchurch man charged for 111 Lime scooter rides he did not take
Stuff
by Tina Law

Gwyn Clarke was for billed $696 for 111 Lime rides that he didn't take. Lime eventually agreed to refund the money, but initially refused to do so.

Gwyn Clarke got quite a surprise when he was charged for taking 111 Lime scooter rides, especially since he has never set foot on one.

The Christchurch man made the discovery in December when he noticed his credit card balance had crept up.

"Upon further investigation I found 111 transactions between October and December totalling $696.60."

He rang his bank straight away and was told the transactions originated from a company called "Neutron Holdings, Inc Li.Me Ca", otherwise known as Lime scooters. The bank cancelled the credit card immediately.

"I don't even have the Lime app installed on my phone, so I'm not a customer."

Then the long fight to get his money back began.

"I tried to contact Lime scooters and found they don't have a physical presence in New Zealand. The only way to contact them is via their US website."

Clarke, a computer technical specialist, registered his "billing issue" by filling out a form on the website and asking for the money to be refunded to him. After several days with no response he scoured the website for a phone number and the only one he found was a United States number. He rang the number but the person he spoke with refused to tell him anything about the Lime account his card had been connected to or even where the rides happened.

Almost a month later Clarke received an email saying Lime had blocked the account that had loaded his credit card details, but it refused to refund him any money because it had already been used for Lime rides.

"I rang the US number again and advised them that this is not acceptable to me as I believe their account checking procedures are at fault as they did not verify the Lime account owner was also the owner of the credit card."

He was told the rides were taken in Christchurch, but if he wanted any further information he would have to get a subpoena.

"I have no idea who has used my credit card details."

Clarke made a fraud complaint with police and did not expect to hear from Lime again. But late last week, he received a text from Lime saying they had investigated the case and they would now refund him in full.

Clarke said he was happy to finally get his money back, but it should not have taken three months of fighting a "faceless" company to get it.

If the company was operating so widely in New Zealand then it needed to have a physical presence in the country, he said.

The whole experience has put Clarke off riding a Lime scooter.

MurrayM

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#2186690 25-Feb-2019 09:34

kingdragonfly: https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/110664625/christchurch-man-charged-for-111-lime-scooter-rides-he-did-not-take

Christchurch man charged for 111 Lime scooter rides he did not take
Stuff
by Tina Law

...

"I tried to contact Lime scooters and found they don't have a physical presence in New Zealand. The only way to contact them is via their US website."
...

Huh? If Lime doesn't have a physical presence in NZ then who's the guy that has appeared on TV to represent them? I thought he was in charge of their NZ opperation, surely he has an office somewhere?

richms

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#2186691 25-Feb-2019 09:35

Doofus doesnt know how to do a chargeback and is doing the banks work for them?

Richard rich.ms

MileHighKiwi

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#2186730 25-Feb-2019 10:52

I've never ridden one and have no desire to, it looks like an accident waiting to happen, riding a motorized contraption through the Wellington CBD, negotiating traffic, people etc. I'd rather walk, or if its across town I catch an UBER for like $6.

Seems crazy there aren't regulations and helmet requirements. If you can't ride your mountain bike without a helmet why can you ride a lime scooter without one?

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floydbloke

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#2186830 25-Feb-2019 12:27

richms:

Doofus doesnt know how to do a chargeback and is doing the banks work for them?

Nor did he check his account for any abnormal activity for 3 - 4 months. I wouldn't hire a 'computer specialist' who behaves like this guy.

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

landcruiserguy

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#2186910 25-Feb-2019 13:23

I walked through Hagley park to walk today. Almost got knocked over by a young person on a bike going at unsafe speeds. Won't someone stop those hooligans? Those death machines need speed regulators fitted to them to keep them to the max speed of slightly slower than the walking pace of a angry baby boomer.

nzkiwiman

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#2187011 25-Feb-2019 17:22

One of my work mates is a Juicer and filled me in on some stuff that I hadn't managed to find in the weekend after hearing Lime was banned in Dunedin.

It seems in Dunedin, Lime offered to take the scooters out of the city based on what had happened in Auckland and the DCC said yes.. which is why it seems to be confusing as to why Lime as asking via the app to email the council to bring back Lime. It seems the agreement with the council doesn't give the council any rights to force the scooters out of the city

mattwnz

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#2187028 25-Feb-2019 18:25

I see overseas they do 'limebikes', which are battery/motorised bikes. I wonder why they don't do those over here.

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