AT and rail transport in Auckland

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › AT and rail transport in Auckland - fail.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | ... | 9

9158 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1364

Subscriber

#2039871 18-Jun-2018 16:06

MikeAqua:

If I was in charge ...

Cheap fares, frequent services.

Rapacious congestion charges for cars in the CBD, that subsidise the money lost on mass transit.

Charges for motorway use as well (except through traffic).

Exemptions for people with limited mobility (and more parking for them).

I'm damn glad you're not in charge then.

Regards,

Old3eyes

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1749

#2040053 18-Jun-2018 21:27

trig42:
kryptonjohn:

sbiddle:

What's wrong with a half hourly train service? Weekend eveings in Wellington are all hourly services which is what the demand dictates.

Would you be happy if your rates went up to offer more frequent services?

Seriously?

It's too long to wait. Can get an Uber in about 5 minutes. I think this just shows that rail is a technology still stuck with limitations from the 1800's.

Rates shouldn't have to go up. Auckland city needs to learn how to budget.

Now that you have done it once, you have learnt.

Next time, get your wife a HOP card, and leave the restaurant a bit later/earlier so that you get to the station on time and don't have to wait as long (check the timetable using their app or website).

I agree there is a way to go to catch up to overseas, but it's not like they aren't trying (the CRL will improve services, and hopefully get more people out of cars). Public transport in Auckland has been neglected for so long, it will take time to fix it. The trains now are multiple time better than they were 10 years ago. They will get better. Hopefully this government gets spades in the ground ASAP for light rail, and a case can be made for Light Rail to and around the shore too.

Light rail is pointless. As in the CBD at least, it is duplicating the central rail loop. It will be really slow due to having to use the same roads as cars. And electric buses will soon be full electric. So no emissions reductions from using trams instead of buses.

There is already rail to Onehunga. It is crazy to build a completely separate track network. Instead of just extending the network that we already have.

kryptonjohn

2523 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 953

Lifetime subscriber

#2040078 18-Jun-2018 21:49

trig42:

Now that you have done it once, you have learnt.

Learnt to avoid the train.

trig42:

Next time, get your wife a HOP card

Unlikely. Now she thinks the train is a bit pants and she's only going to use the card occasionally - why buy the thing and top it up just to give AT a free loan?

trig42:

, and leave the restaurant a bit later/earlier so that you get to the station on time and don't have to wait as long (check the timetable using their app or website).

Not inclined to change schedule to suit the train when there's the convenience of just getting an Uber whenever one is ready.

trig42:

I agree there is a way to go to catch up to overseas, but it's not like they aren't trying (the CRL will improve services, and hopefully get more people out of cars).

It will be vastly better with the CRL - but only at peak times when they can increase the service frequency. It won't help off peak when they won't increase the frequency because of low demand.

trig42:

Public transport in Auckland has been neglected for so long, it will take time to fix it. The trains now are multiple time better than they were 10 years ago. They will get better. Hopefully this government gets spades in the ground ASAP for light rail, and a case can be made for Light Rail to and around the shore too.

Light rail doesn't look very good to me - at least not the crazy idea of running it all the way down Dominion Rd and across to the airport. Far too expensive for little benefit and massively disruptive. There's already a "proper" train that goes almost all the way there. Better to just widen the road and put in some bus lanes for the bits that aren't covered by trains. It's a rare thing but I agree with Mike Lee on this one.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12042426

matisyahu

1639 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 355

Trusted

#2040087 18-Jun-2018 22:04

Davy: Auckland will have a population of 2 million in about ten years. It's not economic to import a fleet of cars big enough to accommodate that number along with all the fuel to run them nor to allocate enough land to accommodate them.

Public transport has to do the bulk of the job, and needs to be usable like in other modern cities of this size.

As noted on a Reddit post I made, an ideal situation would be to cap vehicle registrations at 1 million (reducing it by 100,000 every 5 years until it hits 500,000 vehicles) and with putting registrations on a 5 year rotation and auction off the limited number of registrations then use that money to build public transpiration and drive down the cost until economies of scale kick in.

"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People's Stick'"

GV27

5977 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2040138 19-Jun-2018 06:06

matisyahu:

Davy: Auckland will have a population of 2 million in about ten years. It's not economic to import a fleet of cars big enough to accommodate that number along with all the fuel to run them nor to allocate enough land to accommodate them.

Public transport has to do the bulk of the job, and needs to be usable like in other modern cities of this size.

As noted on a Reddit post I made, an ideal situation would be to cap vehicle registrations at 1 million (reducing it by 100,000 every 5 years until it hits 500,000 vehicles) and with putting registrations on a 5 year rotation and auction off the limited number of registrations then use that money to build public transpiration and drive down the cost until economies of scale kick in.

Yea I don't think poor people should have freedom of mobility either.

trig42

5889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2094

ID Verified

#2040182 19-Jun-2018 08:52

Light Rail isn't pointless IMO.

It is not duplicating the CRL, it is removing buses from Dominion Road and the CBD. The Airport link is a red herring, sure it will be handy but it isn't the reason to build it. The CBD can take no more buses (at least without removing more cars).

Queen Street doesn't need cars on it - what is the point of driving your car down Queen St - it should be buses and LR and pedestrians only (goods vehicles at certain times of the day maybe - it is done overseas).

Building the Light Rail network as they are planning (one line down Dominion Road and out through Mangere, ending at the Airport, and the other line out along the NW motorway to Westgate) takes people out of cars into the CBD (especially the NW one) and gets people to and from major employment areas (Airport business parks, CBD and Dominion Road). It also frees up more space in the CBD for Buses from other areas.

I agree the ideal solution is more heavy rail lines, but that will require another CRL (the one being built will be pretty much full with the two lines we currently have). That takes huuge money and a lot more time.

AT and the government have both decided LR is the way to go now, I say stop talking arguing (which is all that has happened in Auckland for 50+ years) and get some spades in the ground.

Apple TV

Stream your favourite shows now on Apple TV (affiliate link).

1cloud

164 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 19

#2040189 19-Jun-2018 09:03

Linux:

I was in Taiwan last week and a train ride about the distance from Auckland CBD to Papakura worked out under $1 NZ and the trains came about every 5 / 6 minutes

John

and free wifi

Davy

200 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 66

#2040193 19-Jun-2018 09:25

trig42:
Light Rail isn't pointless IMO.

It is not duplicating the CRL, it is removing buses from Dominion Road and the CBD. The Airport link is a red herring, sure it will be handy but it isn't the reason to build it. The CBD can take no more buses (at least without removing more cars).

Queen Street doesn't need cars on it - what is the point of driving your car down Queen St - it should be buses and LR and pedestrians only (goods vehicles at certain times of the day maybe - it is done overseas).

Building the Light Rail network as they are planning (one line down Dominion Road and out through Mangere, ending at the Airport, and the other line out along the NW motorway to Westgate) takes people out of cars into the CBD (especially the NW one) and gets people to and from major employment areas (Airport business parks, CBD and Dominion Road). It also frees up more space in the CBD for Buses from other areas.

I agree the ideal solution is more heavy rail lines, but that will require another CRL (the one being built will be pretty much full with the two lines we currently have). That takes huuge money and a lot more time.

AT and the government have both decided LR is the way to go now, I say stop talking arguing (which is all that has happened in Auckland for 50+ years) and get some spades in the ground.

The problem with light rail is not so much where it goes, but where it doesn't go. The obvious gaps in the rail network are to the North and to the East, but light rail is being sent to the South and to the West.

That is not explained and is the reason for a lot of the opposition to it.

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1749

#2040226 19-Jun-2018 09:32

trig42:
Light Rail isn't pointless IMO.

It is not duplicating the CRL, it is removing buses from Dominion Road and the CBD. The Airport link is a red herring, sure it will be handy but it isn't the reason to build it. The CBD can take no more buses (at least without removing more cars).

Queen Street doesn't need cars on it - what is the point of driving your car down Queen St - it should be buses and LR and pedestrians only (goods vehicles at certain times of the day maybe - it is done overseas).

Building the Light Rail network as they are planning (one line down Dominion Road and out through Mangere, ending at the Airport, and the other line out along the NW motorway to Westgate) takes people out of cars into the CBD (especially the NW one) and gets people to and from major employment areas (Airport business parks, CBD and Dominion Road). It also frees up more space in the CBD for Buses from other areas.

I agree the ideal solution is more heavy rail lines, but that will require another CRL (the one being built will be pretty much full with the two lines we currently have). That takes huuge money and a lot more time.

AT and the government have both decided LR is the way to go now, I say stop talking arguing (which is all that has happened in Auckland for 50+ years) and get some spades in the ground.

If the only problem is too many buses in the CBD, have the Dominion rd buses stop somewhere around Kingsland/ Newton \ upper Queen st area. And the passengers then catch a train via the central rail loop to get to the lower CBD / Britomart area. There are only capacity problems with heavy rail at the moment because Britomart Station is not a through station. Meaning trains have to reverse out, before the next train can enter. This problem will be fixed as part of the central rail loop.

And again, the proposed trams will be duplicating the heavy rail network. Which is why simply extending the heavy rail network will be cheaper, or at least very similar cost. The North Auckland heavy rail line passes very close to the north western motorway at Kingsland by the Bond st overbridge. A junction can easily be installed there to connect a heavy rail line running along the NW motorway, into the existing rail network.

GV27

5977 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2040227 19-Jun-2018 09:33

Davy:

The problem with light rail is not so much where it goes, but where it doesn't go. The obvious gaps in the rail network are to the North and to the East, but light rail is being sent to the South and to the West.

That is not explained and is the reason for a lot of the opposition to it.

The Shore already has a separate busway. The East is getting one. There's your answer.

Honestly the Shore had a busway for a decade before anyone else and but it doesn't stop them whinging about not having rail/more ferries/light rail etc.

And you might want to check how close the rail out West gets to places like Westgate and Hobsonville where those massive subdivisions are going in (hint: it doesn't get close at all).

trig42

5889 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2094

ID Verified

#2040285 19-Jun-2018 10:11

Aredwood:
trig42:

Light Rail isn't pointless IMO.

It is not duplicating the CRL, it is removing buses from Dominion Road and the CBD. The Airport link is a red herring, sure it will be handy but it isn't the reason to build it. The CBD can take no more buses (at least without removing more cars).

Queen Street doesn't need cars on it - what is the point of driving your car down Queen St - it should be buses and LR and pedestrians only (goods vehicles at certain times of the day maybe - it is done overseas).

Building the Light Rail network as they are planning (one line down Dominion Road and out through Mangere, ending at the Airport, and the other line out along the NW motorway to Westgate) takes people out of cars into the CBD (especially the NW one) and gets people to and from major employment areas (Airport business parks, CBD and Dominion Road). It also frees up more space in the CBD for Buses from other areas.

I agree the ideal solution is more heavy rail lines, but that will require another CRL (the one being built will be pretty much full with the two lines we currently have). That takes huuge money and a lot more time.

AT and the government have both decided LR is the way to go now, I say stop talking arguing (which is all that has happened in Auckland for 50+ years) and get some spades in the ground.

If the only problem is too many buses in the CBD, have the Dominion rd buses stop somewhere around Kingsland/ Newton \ upper Queen st area. And the passengers then catch a train via the central rail loop to get to the lower CBD / Britomart area. There are only capacity problems with heavy rail at the moment because Britomart Station is not a through station. Meaning trains have to reverse out, before the next train can enter. This problem will be fixed as part of the central rail loop.

And again, the proposed trams will be duplicating the heavy rail network. Which is why simply extending the heavy rail network will be cheaper, or at least very similar cost. The North Auckland heavy rail line passes very close to the north western motorway at Kingsland by the Bond st overbridge. A junction can easily be installed there to connect a heavy rail line running along the NW motorway, into the existing rail network.

But they are not duplicating it.

There is no heavy rail to Dominion Road/Mt Roskill/Mangere/Airport, or to Westgate/Hobsonville.

There is heavy Rail to Panmure, from where they are building a Busway to Pakuranga (it should go all the way to Howick IMO) and Botany. That could eventually be easily turned to Light Rail, and hook up via Te Irirangi Drive to Manukau and the Airport (joining up to the Dominion Road line)

The North Shore busway, which is very successful and popular, was built with Light Rail in mind, and with a tunnel/bridge could be connected back to the CBD and expanded to more locations on the shore (up Onewa/through Glenfield to Albany?).

I'm sure that eventually, these Light Rail lines could make way for Heavy Rail, but it would need to be tunnelled/elevated in sections, and another line or two dug through the CBD - they are saying that with the 2/3 lines currently running the CRL will be full with a train through the City stations every 3 minutes or less I think (or maybe more, I can't find the figures sorry, but I think the stations will be running at 24 trains per hour)

Lego

Shop now for Lego sets and other gifts (affiliate link).

Aredwood

3885 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1749

#2040377 19-Jun-2018 12:47

matisyahu:
Davy: Auckland will have a population of 2 million in about ten years. It's not economic to import a fleet of cars big enough to accommodate that number along with all the fuel to run them nor to allocate enough land to accommodate them.

Public transport has to do the bulk of the job, and needs to be usable like in other modern cities of this size.

As noted on a Reddit post I made, an ideal situation would be to cap vehicle registrations at 1 million (reducing it by 100,000 every 5 years until it hits 500,000 vehicles) and with putting registrations on a 5 year rotation and auction off the limited number of registrations then use that money to build public transpiration and drive down the cost until economies of scale kick in.

The number of cars someone owns has nothing to do with how much they drive. For example, I own 2 cars. But I can only drive 1 car at a time. So if I got rid of 1 of those cars, there will still be exactly the same amount of traffic congestion. As when my cars are not being driven, they are stored on private land.

Such a policy will also delay the uptake of electric cars. As it will be difficult to own both an EV and an ICE car.

GV27

5977 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2040397 19-Jun-2018 13:22

Aredwood:
matisyahu:

Davy: Auckland will have a population of 2 million in about ten years. It's not economic to import a fleet of cars big enough to accommodate that number along with all the fuel to run them nor to allocate enough land to accommodate them.

Public transport has to do the bulk of the job, and needs to be usable like in other modern cities of this size.

As noted on a Reddit post I made, an ideal situation would be to cap vehicle registrations at 1 million (reducing it by 100,000 every 5 years until it hits 500,000 vehicles) and with putting registrations on a 5 year rotation and auction off the limited number of registrations then use that money to build public transpiration and drive down the cost until economies of scale kick in.

The number of cars someone owns has nothing to do with how much they drive. For example, I own 2 cars. But I can only drive 1 car at a time. So if I got rid of 1 of those cars, there will still be exactly the same amount of traffic congestion. As when my cars are not being driven, they are stored on private land.

Such a policy will also delay the uptake of electric cars. As it will be difficult to own both an EV and an ICE car.

Agreed, and many will hold off until their EV can do what an ICE can do for the same price (i.e. decades). What's that old saying about perfect being the enemy of good enough?

MikeAqua

8024 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3818

#2040400 19-Jun-2018 13:24

matisyahu:

As noted on a Reddit post I made, an ideal situation would be to cap vehicle registrations at 1 million (reducing it by 100,000 every 5 years until it hits 500,000 vehicles) and with putting registrations on a 5 year rotation and auction off the limited number of registrations then use that money to build public transpiration and drive down the cost until economies of scale kick in.

Such a policy would motivate people to register cars at different addresses - out of town relatives etc.

Mike

GV27

5977 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2040438 19-Jun-2018 13:36

This would also make it impossible for people like me who could downgrade their daily to a weekend car but get a second-hand EV to use as a daily driver/city car instead.

This would eliminate 80% of the emissions from my driving and drastically lower the cost of congestion (from a fuel perspective).

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | ... | 9