EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#1744264 20-Mar-2017 09:39

Just a couple of questions about EV battery range. A friend mentioned that you have to be very careful using air conditioning or heating when you have an EV, because if you have one of these on all the time, it might reduce the range of the EV by as much as 50%!

Is this likely, or is the use of air conditioning or heating a fairly minor issue with regard to range?

Another question, this morning it's reported that a major holdup on the motorway means that cars have been stuck in a queue for as long as 2 hours. How do you think this would impact on battery range assuming that you only have to travel, say, 30km? Is it almost equivalent to driving at a normal speed for two hours...the thought of this would worry me a little if I was in a queue for 2 hours in my EV!

Thanks

Fred

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#1744348 20-Mar-2017 11:03

How does an EV power an A/C unit? Separate motor or belt off the main motor?

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#1744373 20-Mar-2017 11:19

frednz:

Just a couple of questions about EV battery range. A friend mentioned that you have to be very careful using air conditioning or heating when you have an EV, because if you have one of these on all the time, it might reduce the range of the EV by as much as 50%!

Is this likely, or is the use of air conditioning or heating a fairly minor issue with regard to range?

Another question, this morning it's reported that a major holdup on the motorway means that cars have been stuck in a queue for as long as 2 hours. How do you think this would impact on battery range assuming that you only have to travel, say, 30km? Is it almost equivalent to driving at a normal speed for two hours...the thought of this would worry me a little if I was in a queue for 2 hours in my EV!

Thanks

Fred

I would imagine that being stuck on the motorway would not use a heap of power (especially if you wound the window down and didn't use AC).

I'd think that they use a baseline of power from the traction batteries (for keeping the car 'going'), and the remainder of the power usage would be linked with the speed you are doing (obviously, wind resistance would make this line non-linear) as the cars do not have gearboxes, the amount of speed is directly linked to the amount of power being used for that speed. If you are stop-starting, your power usage would be pretty low.

afe66

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#1744695 20-Mar-2017 18:21

frednz:
Just a couple of questions about EV battery range. A friend mentioned that you have to be very careful using air conditioning or heating when you have an EV, because if you have one of these on all the time, it might reduce the range of the EV by as much as 50%!

Is this likely, or is the use of air conditioning or heating a fairly minor issue with regard to range?

Does your friend have this problem with his EV?
Putting AC on in my leaf drops the range by about 15km.

Another question, this morning it's reported that a major holdup on the motorway means that cars have been stuck in a queue for as long as 2 hours. How do you think this would impact on battery range assuming that you only have to travel, say, 30km? Is it almost equivalent to driving at a normal speed for two hours...the thought of this would worry me a little if I was in a queue for 2 hours in my EV!

If the car isn't moving the only thing using electricity is the radio and background electronics which is trivial compared with the electricity required to move a ton of electric car Running the AC would use some battery power but again compared with the power moving car I'm not sure it's that big an issue. You could work it out while sitting there by looking at how the estimated range changes as you sit there. You could always turn the AC off then electricity use would be minimal.

AC drain would be independent of the size of the battery. If this is a serious worry get a car with bigger battery The New Zoe with 41kW or the 30kW leaf..

jarledb

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#1744703 20-Mar-2017 18:35

It all depends on the temperature. If you are in really cold areas, yes - the range will be significantly shorter when its cold and you need to heat the cabin from the battery.

This is an interesting article that talks about the various factors in reduced range during winter. (Google translated article from a Norwegian tech magazine).

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afe66

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#1744733 20-Mar-2017 19:09

But by world temperature standards is no where in Nz cold or hot....

Are they issues that people in Nz realistically have to worry about?

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#1745304 21-Mar-2017 18:12

I took the new corolla hybrid out for a test drive.
One of things I did was to see how long the battery can power the aircond.
So I parked up with fully charged battery, engine not running and aircond full blast.
It lasted approxmately 6 to 7 minutes before the engine cuts in.
Not sure what was left in battery, but was pretty low then.
The inside is like a fridge by then.
If I am not wrong it uses a Nimh battery about 1.6 Kwh

So if we extrapolated from that, with a 40kwh Leaf battery...

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#1745464 21-Mar-2017 22:48

Regarding power consumption of aircon, its material, but not huge. Something like 8-10% or 10 - 15km worth of range on my car. That said, NZ climate is mild compared to a lot of the world. If you live in an extreme climate, many EV's will allow you to set a departure timer, and precondition both the battery pack temperature and cabin temperature before you unplug the car, so at least you get the initial heating or chilling without using the battery.

MikeAqua:

How does an EV power an A/C unit? Separate motor or belt off the main motor?

Pretty much All EV's, and Most Hybrids run the Air Conditioning compressor with a dedicated motor running off the traction battery pack.

Big issue with a belt drive, is that in EV's, the motor is connected directly to the wheels via a fixed ratio gearbox. There is no way to spin the motor without turning the wheels. Therefore no way to cool of the car when stopped, an especially large issue when you just climb into a car that has been sitting in the sun.

Having it's own motor has advantages. In the i3, you can leave the A/C on while the car is parked, or set a precondition timer (or turn on the A/C from the key), to have the car cooled before you get into the car on a hot day. (obviously leaving the air-con cranking in an unoccupied power uses a chunk of the battery.

afe66

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#1745653 22-Mar-2017 11:22

Come winter in the deep south I will be turning on the climate control timer in my leaf so that at about 7am whilst plugged in, it will warm up to 18c.

Should be nice and warm and frost free.

A.

How real world useful is a hybrid with a 1.6 kW battery?! How far can it drive on that? Sounds like marketing gymic.

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#1745696 22-Mar-2017 12:17

afe66: How real world useful is a hybrid with a 1.6 kW battery?! How far can it drive on that? Sounds like marketing gymic.

I don't think there's any intended range with hybrids, exception the likes of the Mitsubishi. Definitely effective at reducing consumption in Auckland traffic though.

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#1746043 22-Mar-2017 20:18

frednz:

Just a couple of questions about EV battery range. A friend mentioned that you have to be very careful using air conditioning or heating when you have an EV, because if you have one of these on all the time, it might reduce the range of the EV by as much as 50%!

Is this likely, or is the use of air conditioning or heating a fairly minor issue with regard to range?

Another question, this morning it's reported that a major holdup on the motorway means that cars have been stuck in a queue for as long as 2 hours. How do you think this would impact on battery range assuming that you only have to travel, say, 30km? Is it almost equivalent to driving at a normal speed for two hours...the thought of this would worry me a little if I was in a queue for 2 hours in my EV!

Thanks

Fred

It will depend on the vehicle.

My 2016 LEAF comes with a heat pump. It heats and cools very efficiently as far as energy use is concerned. How much energy? That will depend on how hot or cold you want it relative to the exterior ambient temperature. If it's 20C outside and you want it 19C inside.....you pay almost no penalty at all. If it's 40C outside and you want it 16C inside, you will use more energy. The same applies in reverse (heating instead of cooling).

Here's a photo I just took of my control centre after seeing your question. (Oops, posted it instead of uploading the photo)

So what are we looking at? The bit you're interested in the cost of 6km of range if I turn the AC on (set to 19C). The estimated range remaining is 134km and my battery is on 70% (you can't see that, but it is). If my battery was on 100% my range estimated (based on recent driving conditions and behaviours) would be 191km.

So I would pay a penalty of 6km out of 191km to use the AC to stay at 19C.

Heating? As the car has a heat pump, I haven't seen any difference with respect to heating. But then it hasn't been cold.

The LEAF also has seat warmers and a sterring wheel warmer. Last winter, in my old LEAF, which did NOT have a heat pump, the resistive heater would eat up the battery if you left it on. So we didn't leave it on. We'd have it on for 2-3 minutes to warm up...and then turn it off. Maybe 20 mins later we'd turn it back on for 2-3 minutes. Or just use the seat warmers.

The figure of 50% is wildly, insanely wrong.

As for traffic jams.....it's the absolute best time to drive an electric car. You use almost no energy to barely move....and I swear my LEAF's range would be over 400km if I could arrange a proper Auckland traffic crawl all the way to Taupo and beyond. Greenrace knows the topogrphy and I've found it to be extremely accurate at predicting range provided you stick to the required *average* speed. That averaging takes a little practice, but the car does measure it for you as you go to help.

Here's an example. Auckland to Kaitaia. Over 300km. Can a 30kWh LEAF do it? Absolutely.....provided the average speed is 20kph. The same applies to traffic jams. the slower the traffic, the FURTHER you'll go. I often tell people with limited range EVs to try to hit every traffic jam they can....as it will maxmise their ACTUAL range.

This is how Greenrace presents it:

Hmm....GZ seems to shrink it due to the width. It's saying that on THAT route over THAT topography my range at an average 20kph would be 334km....and I would arrive in Kaitaia on 5% battery....after 15 hours or so. :-)

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#1746049 22-Mar-2017 20:24

I was surprised to read that the number of registered EV's are so low in NZ as I seem to see the Nissan Leaf all the time.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Linuxluver

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#1746060 22-Mar-2017 20:50

MikeB4:

I was surprised to read that the number of registered EV's are so low in NZ as I seem to see the Nissan Leaf all the time.

The EV count has almost trebled since the end of January 2016. That's in 14 months.

The most popular EV - the LEAF - isn't even sold here anymore by Nissan. Only about 1/4 of the 1600 LEAFs on the road in NZ today would have been sold here by Nissan. The rest are all imports by 3rd-party importers.

Auckland accounts for about 2/3 of all the LEAFs in NZ and Wellington is second, if I recall correctly. :-)

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frednz

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#1746066 22-Mar-2017 21:25

Linuxluver:

Hmm....GZ seems to shrink it due to the width. It's saying that on THAT route over THAT topography my range at an average 20kph would be 334km....and I would arrive in Kaitaia on 5% battery....after 15 hours or so. :-)

Thanks very much to those who have commented on the effect on range of using air conditioning or heating, it's very helpful to get the views of people who actually own EVs!

Of course there are lots of articles on internet about how extreme weather conditions can affect an electric car's range:

Here's a couple of extracts from the article linked to above:

"In fact, during peak days where the temperature is at its extreme, the range could drop by 40 percent or more," said Michalek.

Basically what that means is "a vehicle that normally gets a hundred-mile range, it would only get 60 miles on this extreme weather day," he said."

"An important factor that influences battery life is temperature. Batteries are less efficient in extremely cold conditions and degrade more quickly in very hot conditions. Plus, cranking up the heat or air conditioning uses even more energy and drains the battery."

So, I realise that it comes down to really understanding the particular characteristics of your EV and I know that NZ doesn't experience the same weather extremes as some overseas countries. I guess new EV owners just need to be aware that the range of an EV can be affected by lots of different factors, including the use of air conditioning and heating.

Regards

Fred

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#1746072 22-Mar-2017 21:39

Linuxluver:

The most popular EV - the LEAF - isn't even sold here anymore by Nissan. Only about 1/4 of the 1600 LEAFs on the road in NZ today would have been sold here by Nissan. The rest are all imports by 3rd-party importers.

Auckland accounts for about 2/3 of all the LEAFs in NZ and Wellington is second, if I recall correctly. :-)

There are only 87 Leafs in NZ that are recorded as "new"

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