EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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2degrees

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#2729240 15-Jun-2021 16:42

mattwnz:

I do wonder why EVs don't have Photovoltaic generation on the roof and bonnet, to trickle charge the battery when driving and when parked during the day. Some may already do this, I don't know, but PVs are becoming more and more efficient. Teslas have a glass roof, which prevents that as an option.

There's really not enough surface area to make it worthwhile. PV efficiency is increasing, yes, but it is still very low. And critically, the PVs that are most efficient are flat panels: flexible ones that can conform to the shape of a car body are far less efficient. Peak sunlight is something 500W/m2, so with 100% efficiency, a car with 1m2 of solar panels would charge at 500W. Given you don't get peak sunlight all day, in practice you get little actual benefit. Certainly not enough to justify the cost.

If you want to solar charge your EV, put panels on the roof of your house.

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sleemanj

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#2729252 15-Jun-2021 17:25

mattwnz:

I wonder if in teh coming years or decade we will find out that we don't have enough power generation to cope with moving all our vehicle fleet to electricity without some big investment in generation, creating an electricity crisis and huge increases in prices due to supply and demand? Will it be another case of 'Ambulance and the bottom of the cliff'. I will be ironic if we have to fire up emergency generation, using fossil fuels to then power EVs.

If all the cars in NZ today were instantly EV, it would require somewhere around 8 Terawatt Hours a year I believe, a little more than the total output of Manapouri power station if it ran 24/7/365 at full whack - obviously this is a bit silly for lots of reasons, but it serves to illustrate that it is not an insurmountable problem requiring investment at levels we have never seen before. This is not a Muldoon "Think Big" project.

There are consented power stations (renewable, and not) which just have not been built yet which combined far exceed these sorts of generation levels.

In short, as demand increases power stations, and perhaps more importantly, temporary energy storage solutions to cater for the somewhat peaky nature of energy consumption, will be built to satisfy the demand.

Finally. it is fine to use fossil fuel power plants if renewable is not available, not only is one fossil fuel plant much easier to make far more efficient and lower emission than 100000 cars, but when you replace that fossul fiel power plant with renewable you instantly with the flick of a switch make 100000 cars greener.

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ezbee

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#2729261 15-Jun-2021 17:47

SaltyNZ:

mattwnz:

I do wonder why EVs don't have Photovoltaic generation on the roof and bonnet, to trickle charge the battery when driving and when parked during the day. Some may already do this, I don't know, but PVs are becoming more and more efficient. Teslas have a glass roof, which prevents that as an option.

There's really not enough surface area to make it worthwhile. PV efficiency is increasing, yes, but it is still very low. And critically, the PVs that are most efficient are flat panels: flexible ones that can conform to the shape of a car body are far less efficient. Peak sunlight is something 500W/m2, so with 100% efficiency, a car with 1m2 of solar panels would charge at 500W. Given you don't get peak sunlight all day, in practice you get little actual benefit. Certainly not enough to justify the cost.

If you want to solar charge your EV, put panels on the roof of your house.

Please for the love of all things, don't put your solar panels on the pavement or road either.

EEVblog 1389 - Spanish Solar Pavement STUPIDITY - YouTube

Especially with so much roof space to fill.

tdgeek

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#2729266 15-Jun-2021 18:05

mattwnz:

I do wonder why EVs don't have Photovoltaic generation on the roof and bonnet, to trickle charge the battery when driving and when parked during the day. Some may already do this, I don't know, but PVs are becoming more and more efficient. Teslas have a glass roof, which prevents that as an option. Will also reduce the load on our power generation

I wonder if in teh coming years or decade we will find out that we don't have enough power generation to cope with moving all our vehicle fleet to electricity without some big investment in generation, creating an electricity crisis and huge increases in prices due to supply and demand? Will it be another case of 'Ambulance and the bottom of the cliff'. I will be ironic if we have to fire up emergency generation, using fossil fuels to then power EVs.

I love solar. (Although for most its nowhere near worth it) I raised the solar panels on a car and git shot down. But I see no issue. Its a one off sunk cost that will deliver

Reduce load on our power generation? I don't think thats relevant. I raised that if every house had PV that would be awesome, but also shot down as residential power is small.

Crisis? I doubt it. Despite the excess need for EV's, it will take a generation. We can deliver any type of green energy much faster than what the slow uptake of EV's will be. EV's are the big deal right now, but if you extrapolated the uptake, its a very slow burn. Is almost clickbait, in the news every day but for NZ it will take a generation to measure a benefit. better off to look at other "now" measures. Like methane.

tdgeek

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#2729267 15-Jun-2021 18:07

HarmLessSolutions:

That idea has been adopted but there are definite limitations on the generating capacity.

Yes, same applies at home too, for most

tdgeek

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#2729268 15-Jun-2021 18:09

SaltyNZ:

If you want to solar charge your EV, put panels on the roof of your house.

If you can charge your EV at 10am to 3pm every day. Then you can drive at night!

lchiu7

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#2729352 15-Jun-2021 20:48

SaltyNZ:

mattwnz:

I do wonder why EVs don't have Photovoltaic generation on the roof and bonnet, to trickle charge the battery when driving and when parked during the day. Some may already do this, I don't know, but PVs are becoming more and more efficient. Teslas have a glass roof, which prevents that as an option.

There's really not enough surface area to make it worthwhile. PV efficiency is increasing, yes, but it is still very low. And critically, the PVs that are most efficient are flat panels: flexible ones that can conform to the shape of a car body are far less efficient. Peak sunlight is something 500W/m2, so with 100% efficiency, a car with 1m2 of solar panels would charge at 500W. Given you don't get peak sunlight all day, in practice you get little actual benefit. Certainly not enough to justify the cost.

If you want to solar charge your EV, put panels on the roof of your house.

Look at this Ionic 5 review at 8'13" in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgplhK51j_4&t=6s

They talk about the optional solar panel roof but the reviewer says it's likely not to be much in "sunny" UK

That would be my EV of choice but at an projected entry price of $80K it's outside my budget even with the $8K rebate.

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Geektastic

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#2729356 15-Jun-2021 21:18

Obraik:
Previously known as the NZTA

Still known as the NZTA as far as I can tell, no matter what anyone says.

gzt

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#2729363 15-Jun-2021 21:29

Ford's electric pickup truck has over 100,000 pre-orders:

HotCars:Starting at US$39,974 for a version with an estimated 230 miles of range, Ford expects to capture sales from fleets looking to switch to electric vehicles. By so doing Ford claims fleets could cut maintenance costs up by to 40% over eight years and 100,000 miles of use compared to a 2.7L EcoBoost F-150.

jarledb

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#2729388 15-Jun-2021 23:45

tdgeek:

SaltyNZ:

If you want to solar charge your EV, put panels on the roof of your house.

If you can charge your EV at 10am to 3pm every day. Then you can drive at night!

Thats what you have a home battery for.

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mattwnz

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#2729393 16-Jun-2021 00:03

tdgeek:

Crisis? I doubt it. Despite the excess need for EV's, it will take a generation. We can deliver any type of green energy much faster than what the slow uptake of EV's will be. EV's are the big deal right now, but if you extrapolated the uptake, its a very slow burn. Is almost clickbait, in the news every day but for NZ it will take a generation to measure a benefit. better off to look at other "now" measures. Like methane.

I suppose if they do eventually get rid of the resource management act. But I wonder how easy it is to now build a new Hydro generation plant, or Wind Turbine farm, especially with all teh NIMBYs in NZ.

tdgeek

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#2729426 16-Jun-2021 08:59

jarledb:

Thats what you have a home battery for.

At $17k for 13.5kW thats a huge payback period

tdgeek

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#2729435 16-Jun-2021 09:03

mattwnz:

I suppose if they do eventually get rid of the resource management act. But I wonder how easy it is to now build a new Hydro generation plant, or Wind Turbine farm, especially with all teh NIMBYs in NZ.

Agree. I'd say the majority of people are concerned about Climate Change, so want it fixed but do not want any costs or any inconvenience #looksatballotpaper

jonathan18

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#2729440 16-Jun-2021 09:13

mattwnz:

I do wonder why EVs don't have Photovoltaic generation on the roof and bonnet, to trickle charge the battery when driving and when parked during the day. Some may already do this, I don't know, but PVs are becoming more and more efficient. Teslas have a glass roof, which prevents that as an option. Will also reduce the load on our power generation

Some of the gen 1 Leafs came with a small solar panel (on the ‘spoiler’ section), but I understand that was only to help maintain charge on the lead acid battery.

jonathan18

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#2729443 16-Jun-2021 09:17

Geektastic:
Obraik:
Previously known as the NZTA

Still known as the NZTA as far as I can tell, no matter what anyone says.

He says from his high and mighty view from on top of Mt Egmont...

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