EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#1795980 7-Jun-2017 14:16

Linuxluver:

Just one more example of how wind resistance after 80kph chews through power. *Equally* true for petrol cars, too, of course. Also worth noting it's very unusual in NZ to be able to drive at higher speed for more than a handful of minutes. I drove from Auckland to Opotiki yesterday in my LEAF and there was always a camper or big truck or slow Nana who keep the speed much closer to 80-90kph on the open road.....if not less in places with hills....plus you go through a town every 10-15 minutes and the speed drops to 50kph-70kph.

Ever tried sitting close behind a big truck?

Mike

afe66

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#1795982 7-Jun-2017 14:19

My only worry about the Zoe is lack of DC rapid charging. IE UK Zoe page linked above doesn't list a DC option under charging.

How many 3 phase high amp AC charging units are there in Nz?

Great if just local use where you can charge up at home with maybe 32A single phase but longer trips?

Please correct me if I'm missing something.

A.

hamish225

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#1795987 7-Jun-2017 14:23

afe66: My only worry about the Zoe is lack of DC rapid charging. IE UK Zoe page linked above doesn't list a DC option under charging.

How many 3 phase high amp AC charging units are there in Nz?

Great if just local use where you can charge up at home with maybe 32A single phase but longer trips?

Please correct me if I'm missing something.

A.

I think the Orion type 2 chargers in christchurch (new Brighton, sumner, botanical gardens) might be 22kw... I could be wrong though. There's a 43kw ac fast charger in little river run by Orion too that I know for sure

*Insert big spe*dtest result here*

afe66

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#1796043 7-Jun-2017 16:25

UK Zoe website has one and half hours to get to 80% for both 43kW (3x62A) and 23kW (3x32A).

5 Hours with 7kW (32A single phase)

If we exclude Tesla destination chargers (as I'm unsure whether we can plug a zoe into one), there is only one higher speed charger outside chch in the SI and thats in Nelson...

Its early days the in the SI but I wont go for a Zoe if planning on travelling out of chch unless you really are keen. I think a 30kW Leaf (or Hyundai Ionic) would be less stress inducing; smaller range but many more true rapid chargers (DC)

wellygary

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#1796049 7-Jun-2017 16:48

afe66:

UK Zoe website has one and half hours to get to 80% for both 43kW (3x62A) and 23kW (3x32A).

5 Hours with 7kW (32A single phase)

If we exclude Tesla destination chargers (as I'm unsure whether we can plug a zoe into one), there is only one higher speed charger outside chch in the SI and thats in Nelson...

Its early days the in the SI but I wont go for a Zoe if planning on travelling out of chch unless you really are keen. I think a 30kW Leaf (or Hyundai Ionic) would be less stress inducing; smaller range but many more true rapid chargers (DC)

A.

*if* the Zoes coming to NZ do not have a Rapid DC charging ability this needs to be majorly spelt out to purchasers upfront, otherwise they risk generating some major bad PR for the model ( along with hurting the EV "brand")

IMHO it would be a real deal killer if you were looking to use it as anything more than a city car.....

RunningMan

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#1796055 7-Jun-2017 17:19

I didn't like the non height adjustable driver seat when I looked at a Zoe - part of the battery pack is directly underneath, so not height adjustable. I'm shorter than @linuxluver, but lowering the sun visor meant I couldn't see out the windscreen easily.

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Linuxluver

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#1796310 8-Jun-2017 00:04

MikeAqua:

Linuxluver:

Just one more example of how wind resistance after 80kph chews through power. *Equally* true for petrol cars, too, of course. Also worth noting it's very unusual in NZ to be able to drive at higher speed for more than a handful of minutes. I drove from Auckland to Opotiki yesterday in my LEAF and there was always a camper or big truck or slow Nana who keep the speed much closer to 80-90kph on the open road.....if not less in places with hills....plus you go through a town every 10-15 minutes and the speed drops to 50kph-70kph.

Ever tried sitting close behind a big truck?

Hell yeah!

Not too close....but 4-5 car lengths back....and the big box breaks up the air for you and you use a lot less power. It falls apart if the truck goes too fast (110kph+) but if the truck is doing under 110 it's well worth staying behind - especially if there is a strong headwind.

On one drive from Greenlane to Te Rapa in my old 24kWh LEAF I did the 108km at normal highway speeds and arrived on 19% (from 100% start). The next time I went down I picked up a big, boxy truck almost as soon as I got on the motorway near Ellerslie....and stuck with it all the way to Te Rapa. I arrived on 36%. Same journey. The truck was doing about the same speeds as I had done on the previous trip....though a lot slower up the Bombay Hill....

I was sold. Following trucks - safely - is an awesome way for any driver - electric or dinosaur-burner - to save energy. It really works.

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#1796422 8-Jun-2017 09:30

Linuxluver:

MikeAqua:

Linuxluver:

Just one more example of how wind resistance after 80kph chews through power. *Equally* true for petrol cars, too, of course. Also worth noting it's very unusual in NZ to be able to drive at higher speed for more than a handful of minutes. I drove from Auckland to Opotiki yesterday in my LEAF and there was always a camper or big truck or slow Nana who keep the speed much closer to 80-90kph on the open road.....if not less in places with hills....plus you go through a town every 10-15 minutes and the speed drops to 50kph-70kph.

Ever tried sitting close behind a big truck?

Hell yeah!

Not too close....but 4-5 car lengths back....and the big box breaks up the air for you and you use a lot less power. It falls apart if the truck goes too fast (110kph+) but if the truck is doing under 110 it's well worth staying behind - especially if there is a strong headwind.

On one drive from Greenlane to Te Rapa in my old 24kWh LEAF I did the 108km at normal highway speeds and arrived on 19% (from 100% start). The next time I went down I picked up a big, boxy truck almost as soon as I got on the motorway near Ellerslie....and stuck with it all the way to Te Rapa. I arrived on 36%. Same journey. The truck was doing about the same speeds as I had done on the previous trip....though a lot slower up the Bombay Hill....

I was sold. Following trucks - safely - is an awesome way for any driver - electric or dinosaur-burner - to save energy. It really works.

There are a few downsides to following trucks as I found recently. A stone (or something solid) from the truck's load hit the windscreen and we spent the rest of the day trying to get a replacement windscreen! Also, I now dodge following trucks because the thick diesel fumes can enter the car (bring on EV trucks)!

MikeAqua

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#1796472 8-Jun-2017 10:11

frednz:

There are a few downsides to following trucks as I found recently. A stone (or something solid) from the truck's load hit the windscreen and we spent the rest of the day trying to get a replacement windscreen! Also, I now dodge following trucks because the thick diesel fumes can enter the car (bring on EV trucks)!

You definitely want to pick your trucks. Logging trucks ten to drop a lot of stones/rocks. Stock trucks are stinky. Tankers and curtain-siders are usually OK.

I find the A/C usually takes care of any fumes.

EV trucks for long haul, high speed freight are a huge technology challenge. Big trucks are driven for extended periods of time with heavy loads and fast enough for drag to have a significant effect. They use a lot of energy.

I think electric trains would be a better choice for long haul freight (although NZ is going backwards on this) - with small EV trucks for local distribution. Where trains aren't an option (e.g. stock trucks), I think it's still going to be diesel - with increasingly strict emissions regulations

Mike

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#1796538 8-Jun-2017 11:38

I reckon aero-dynamics will be improved by EV truck makers - you simply can't afford to waste energy/range by dragging turbulence down the road.

My old man used to drive trucks - he said it was quite noticeable that less throttle was needed when drafting another truck or bus, however conversely he reckoned the extra throttle needed when another truck started drafting him was noticeable. Myth Busters did an episode on drafting trucks.

jarledb

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#1796987 9-Jun-2017 00:48

Vox Borders have been in Oslo, Norway and looked at why there are so many EVs in Norway. (Facebook link)

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frednz

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#1797093 9-Jun-2017 09:56

jarledb:

Vox Borders have been in Oslo, Norway and looked at why there are so many EVs in Norway. (Facebook link)

Thanks, a good link. It seems that Government policy has been the main driver of the growing EV success in Norway. All of which raises the point of what our Government is doing to encourage people to buy EVs? Is the NZ Government really serious about helping people / companies to buy EVs? Aren't EVs just too expensive here at the moment?

Now the Greens are supposed to be the environmental party, what is their policy for encouraging / speeding up the growth of EVs in NZ?

jarledb

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#1797114 9-Jun-2017 10:26

frednz:

Thanks, a good link. It seems that Government policy has been the main driver of the growing EV success in Norway. All of which raises the point of what our Government is doing to encourage people to buy EVs? Is the NZ Government really serious about helping people / companies to buy EVs? Aren't EVs just too expensive here at the moment?

Now the Greens are supposed to be the environmental party, what is their policy for encouraging / speeding up the growth of EVs in NZ?

I think they should at the very least GST exempt electric cars in NZ. Thats what they do in Norway.

Another thing that makes electric cars such a success in Norway is that Norway has had a long running tax on cars based on engine size (now changed to a tax based on CO2 emissions). That tax together with the high GST (25%) has meant that for many cars the actual price you have to pay for it in Norway is double the price of the car excluding GST and taxes.

So expensive electric cars are suddenly not looking so expensive compared to regular cars when all the taxes are removed. How long it will go on for is anyones guess, but at least a few more years.

I highly doubt they will be able to get as many electric cars on the road in NZ as they want without further incentives.

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#1797117 9-Jun-2017 10:32

frednz:

Thanks, a good link. It seems that Government policy has been the main driver of the growing EV success in Norway. All of which raises the point of what our Government is doing to encourage people to buy EVs? Is the NZ Government really serious about helping people / companies to buy EVs? Aren't EVs just too expensive here at the moment?

Now the Greens are supposed to be the environmental party, what is their policy for encouraging / speeding up the growth of EVs in NZ?

I think a better question (than your first) is "is private EV subsidy the best use of taxpayers' money to reduce NZ's carbon footprint?". Because it's far from clear that this is the case. If you look at the purchase subsidy, the road tax subsidy, and the charging infrastructure subidy, and cost this against the carbon tons saved, would it be better to spend the money on, eg home insulation? Or a scrappage scheme to replace the worst x% of cars on the road with newer ones?

EVs are a neat idea and I have no problem with people buying and using them, but I'm not convinced I want my money spent subsidising some guy to drive Tesla (or even a Leaf) at this stage.

I think the Greens would be even more conflicted on this, because it's transferring wealth the wrong way - ie to comparatively wealthy people who can afford an EV

Linuxluver

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#1797129 9-Jun-2017 10:47

frednz:

jarledb:

Vox Borders have been in Oslo, Norway and looked at why there are so many EVs in Norway. (Facebook link)

Thanks, a good link. It seems that Government policy has been the main driver of the growing EV success in Norway. All of which raises the point of what our Government is doing to encourage people to buy EVs? Is the NZ Government really serious about helping people / companies to buy EVs? Aren't EVs just too expensive here at the moment?

Now the Greens are supposed to be the environmental party, what is their policy for encouraging / speeding up the growth of EVs in NZ?

The government wants to get to 64,000 EVs on the road by 2022. To do that, they will likely have to ramp up incentives each year to reach the 4,000/8,000/16,000/32,000/64,000 annual targets. Especially the last couple of years there. But I think they are also banking on EVs becoming cheaper and more competitive with FF-burners. Maybe a meet-in-the-middle strategy?

(update: The target for this year is 4,000 EVs in total in the entire fleet. The total reached so far this year is already over 3,500 during May).

The Greens - rightly, really, don't see personal cars as the long term sustainable future of transport. They support more and better public transport primarily. But they also want to encourage EV uptake by reducing / removing the Fringe Benefit Tax on EVs used in business.....and the idea there is to feed the second-hand EV market with EVs bought by businesses in the first instance. It's a valid approach as most new cars in NZ are bought by businesses. It's probably realistically something Labour would / could support.

If the Green policy for EVs was a "fee-bate" (ICE owners pay a fee annually that's then used to subsidise buying EVs) system, then Labour might not like that and it would be pointless. That said, the Greens don't want to undercut public transport investment over the long term.

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