EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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#1833657 30-Jul-2017 11:50

Queensland Govt announces free electric highway:

Queensland Govt: Environment Minister and Acting Main Roads Minister Steven Miles officially kick-started the EV revolution in the State with the launch of the Queensland Electric Super Highway – the world’s longest in one State.

Mr Miles said the super highway will be a series of fast-charging electric vehicle stations which will be rolled out at locations right up the Queensland coast from the Gold Coast to Cairns to encourage the uptake of electric vehicles in Queensland.

“This project is ambitious, but we want as many people as possible on board the electric vehicle revolution, as part of our transition to a low emissions future,” Mr Miles said.

"Today I’m announcing the first 18 towns and cities that make up phase one of the Electric Super Highway and will, once operational in the next six months, make it possible to drive an electric vehicle from the state’s southern border to the Far North.

"They will be available for use at no cost for the initial phase of the super highway so we can encourage as many people as possible to start using them.”

In other news, Linuxluver announces location of next holiday trip ; ).

Linuxluver

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#1833687 30-Jul-2017 13:00

gzt: Queensland Govt announces free electric highway:

Queensland Govt: Environment Minister and Acting Main Roads Minister Steven Miles officially kick-started the EV revolution in the State with the launch of the Queensland Electric Super Highway – the world’s longest in one State.

Mr Miles said the super highway will be a series of fast-charging electric vehicle stations which will be rolled out at locations right up the Queensland coast from the Gold Coast to Cairns to encourage the uptake of electric vehicles in Queensland.

“This project is ambitious, but we want as many people as possible on board the electric vehicle revolution, as part of our transition to a low emissions future,” Mr Miles said.

"Today I’m announcing the first 18 towns and cities that make up phase one of the Electric Super Highway and will, once operational in the next six months, make it possible to drive an electric vehicle from the state’s southern border to the Far North.

"They will be available for use at no cost for the initial phase of the super highway so we can encourage as many people as possible to start using them.”

In other news, Linuxluver announces location of next holiday trip ; ).

It would most likely involve renting a Tesla for a road trip. ;-)

BTW...I see there is a guy in Toronto who rents out his Telsa Model S 70D for C$139 / day. That is something that may happen in the next few months. :-)

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Linuxluver

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#1833688 30-Jul-2017 13:02

MarkH67:

Linuxluver:

By then maybe there will be a local industry of doing conversions to solid state batteries so the old LEAF will have 100kWh and a 600km range for $50/kWh. Look at smart phone prices in just 9 years.......The phone you paid $1000+ for in 2008 is now the $50 phone at Countdown.

That would have to be on the more optimistic end of the scale, but after 13 years more progress I wouldn't be certain that it couldn't happen. I would love to see solid state batteries succeed - they would be more efficient in terms of resources just from the longer lifespan and they are also inherently more safe without the volatile liquid electrolyte. Imagine buying an electric car with a battery that will never need to be replaced because it could last the lifetime of the car and after that be removed and used in another car or to store power for a house's solar generation.

Looking forward to it. :-)

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frednz

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#1833693 30-Jul-2017 13:12

This article is well worth a read:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40715793

The article is about steps being taken around the world to get vans, trucks, and buses to use electric motors. Here's an extract:

"In Europe, less than 5% of vehicles are commercial vehicles or heavy duty trucks, but they contribute to almost 20% of greenhouse gas emissions," says Ananth Srinivasan, mobility expert with research consultancy Frost & Sullivan.

In New Zealand, there's a large number of commercial vehicles, for example, nearly 50,000 new ones were registered in 2017 (for the June year). So, I think EV enthusiasts need to also lobby hard to get as many electric commercial vehicles as possible on our roads, but perhaps this is already happening?

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#1833750 30-Jul-2017 15:16

frednz:

This article is well worth a read:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40715793

The article is about steps being taken around the world to get vans, trucks, and buses to use electric motors. Here's an extract:

"In Europe, less than 5% of vehicles are commercial vehicles or heavy duty trucks, but they contribute to almost 20% of greenhouse gas emissions," says Ananth Srinivasan, mobility expert with research consultancy Frost & Sullivan.

In New Zealand, there's a large number of commercial vehicles, for example, nearly 50,000 new ones were registered in 2017 (for the June year). So, I think EV enthusiasts need to also lobby hard to get as many electric commercial vehicles as possible on our roads, but perhaps this is already happening?

Various Councils are looking at electric / hybrid buses. Wellington intends to move their buses to electric via a Wrightspeed conversion. That seems to be behind schedule.....fingers crossed it works out.

There is also a company in Palmerston North that actually builds fully electric rubbish trucks. There is a task that's ideal for going electric right now: short haul, same locality.

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Aredwood

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#1833899 30-Jul-2017 20:03

frednz:

This article is well worth a read:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40715793

The article is about steps being taken around the world to get vans, trucks, and buses to use electric motors. Here's an extract:

"In Europe, less than 5% of vehicles are commercial vehicles or heavy duty trucks, but they contribute to almost 20% of greenhouse gas emissions," says Ananth Srinivasan, mobility expert with research consultancy Frost & Sullivan.

In New Zealand, there's a large number of commercial vehicles, for example, nearly 50,000 new ones were registered in 2017 (for the June year). So, I think EV enthusiasts need to also lobby hard to get as many electric commercial vehicles as possible on our roads, but perhaps this is already happening?

Problem is though - no practical electric ute exists yet. Supposedly Tesla has one in development, but that doesn't help looking at what is available today. And when an electric ute does get released, will you be able to tow a 2 berth horse float or a 40ft boat with it? Also no direct electric competitor to the Toyota Hiace Van.

Long term, for applications that involve alot of long distance driving combined with large loads. I think that hybrid drivetrains will probably win out compared to full electric. As large ships have diesel engines that are approx 50% efficient. But such engines have very high compression ratios, and have a max operating RPM of only 900RPM or so. Meaning you could only use one in a road vehicle as part of a hybrid powertrain. And the heat from the engine means that you don't have to use traction battery power for cabin heating. (especially important for buses). For countries that generate most of their power from fossil fuels, such hybrid powertrains could very easily have lower total emissions. And no need to wait for batteries to charge. As the most efficient fossil fuel power station is combined cycle gas which is around 65% efficient. But add transmission losses and battery charge / discharge losses, and you are below 50%. And if your power station is a coal fired power station, or non combined cycle gas, then you have already lost.

Only problem is that such engines have very high NOx emissions. But in turn have much lower carbon emissions, lower particulate emissions, lower unburnt hydrocarbon emissions, and lower carbon monoxide emissions. So the silly rules that regulate NOx emissions will have to be repealed. Once such rules are gone, it will enable carbon emissions from engines to be massively lowered. Through increased engine efficiencies. And the higher exhaust temperatures that such engines have, mean lower particulate emissions, even without particulate filters. And if you do fit a particulate filter, it will be able to self regenerate alot more. Which means another carbon saving, as less need to send raw fuel down the exhaust just to heat the particulate filter. And higher exhaust gas temps also mean more scope to capture that heat for things like absorption refrigeration.

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#1833965 31-Jul-2017 01:06

Linuxluver:

It would most likely involve renting a Tesla for a road trip. ;-)

BTW...I see there is a guy in Toronto who rents out his Telsa Model S 70D for C$139 / day. That is something that may happen in the next few months. :-)

BTW: Have you test driven the Model S and/or X? They are happy to let you test drive them where there are Tesla centres. Have test driven both in Norway, and they are good about not being on your back to try to sell it to you after the test drive. :)

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kiwirock

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#1833983 31-Jul-2017 07:20

Dunedin's Great Big EV Day Out - September 10.

wellygary

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#1834078 31-Jul-2017 09:33

gzt: Queensland Govt announces free electric highway:

But there appears to be no commitment to actually powering it with renewables, - Currently QLD only has over 90% of its electricity provided by Coal and Gas....

MarkH67

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#1834495 31-Jul-2017 19:07

I'd be all for banning sales of fossil fuel vehicles by 2040 and also making our energy production 100% from renewables by that year too. We need to ensure we have enough hydro, geothermal, wind & solar generation so we can decommission any remaining gas, oil or coal plants.

The way I see it: switching to clean electricity generation goes hand in hand with promoting EVs. There may be some benefit to moving pollution out of big cities but not as much benefit as outright reducing pollution.

tripper1000

1617 posts

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#1835036 1-Aug-2017 15:17

wellygary:

gzt: Queensland Govt announces free electric highway:

But there appears to be no commitment to actually powering it with renewables, - Currently QLD only has over 90% of its electricity provided by Coal and Gas....

Sure, it isn't a one stop solution to all the problems, but it is a positive step in the right direction.

Although not the ultimate end state, electric transport powered by coal/gas is better than pure ICE for several reasons:

1) It produces less total CO2 and way less NOX etc.

2) It is far easier to control the pollution (location/volumes/types/filters etc) coming from a power station than vehicle tail pipes - both from an engineering point of view and a regulatory point of view.

3) Economically it is more favourable because it is domestic energy were as oil is predominately imported energy.

Linuxluver

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#1835213 1-Aug-2017 20:16

tripper1000:
wellygary:

gzt: Queensland Govt announces free electric highway:

But there appears to be no commitment to actually powering it with renewables, - Currently QLD only has over 90% of its electricity provided by Coal and Gas....

Sure, it isn't a one stop solution to all the problems, but it is a positive step in the right direction.

Although not the ultimate end state, electric transport powered by coal/gas is better than pure ICE for several reasons:

1) It produces less total CO2 and way less NOX etc.

2) It is far easier to control the pollution (location/volumes/types/filters etc) coming from a power station than vehicle tail pipes - both from an engineering point of view and a regulatory point of view.

3) Economically it is more favourable because it is domestic energy were as oil is predominately imported energy.

...and people can't let themselves be held hostage by grid operators who haven't yet got with the programme.

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tdgeek

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#1835214 1-Aug-2017 20:17

MarkH67:

I'd be all for banning sales of fossil fuel vehicles by 2040 and also making our energy production 100% from renewables by that year too. We need to ensure we have enough hydro, geothermal, wind & solar generation so we can decommission any remaining gas, oil or coal plants.

The way I see it: switching to clean electricity generation goes hand in hand with promoting EVs. There may be some benefit to moving pollution out of big cities but not as much benefit as outright reducing pollution.

We are a small country. Thats makes it easier to change. We are already 80% renewable but our Govt has us penciled in to 2050 to achieve that. Rubbish. Another 33 years??? WE dont need new dams, we need a big push on solar and EV. Individuals and businesses can add their own renewables, EV can feed off that, and no need to add new hydro. WE have a huge fusion reactor 93 million miles away, its there for another 5 billion years, and we still fluff around.

Edit: when I type this type of post I sound like a redneck with grandiose ideas, but its old old ideas that this fancy human race wont use. Or the Govts wont push.

Aredwood

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#1835334 1-Aug-2017 23:48

tdgeek:

MarkH67:

I'd be all for banning sales of fossil fuel vehicles by 2040 and also making our energy production 100% from renewables by that year too. We need to ensure we have enough hydro, geothermal, wind & solar generation so we can decommission any remaining gas, oil or coal plants.

The way I see it: switching to clean electricity generation goes hand in hand with promoting EVs. There may be some benefit to moving pollution out of big cities but not as much benefit as outright reducing pollution.

We are a small country. Thats makes it easier to change. We are already 80% renewable but our Govt has us penciled in to 2050 to achieve that. Rubbish. Another 33 years??? WE dont need new dams, we need a big push on solar and EV. Individuals and businesses can add their own renewables, EV can feed off that, and no need to add new hydro. WE have a huge fusion reactor 93 million miles away, its there for another 5 billion years, and we still fluff around.

Edit: when I type this type of post I sound like a redneck with grandiose ideas, but its old old ideas that this fancy human race wont use. Or the Govts wont push.

Solar is still incredibility expensive compared to hydro. Waitaha power scheme - $100mill build cost , 10-20MW output = $5 to $10 per watt of generating capacity. I was quoted $13,495 for a 2KW solar system with 2.4KW/Hr of li-ion battery storage. Including inverter, PV dirvetor to use excess generation for water heating and installation. Installers claim that I would self consume over 95% of solar generated power.

Lets assume the system lasts for 20 years without needing any repairs and it maintains it's performance for that whole time. The company said that the panels should generate 2682KW/Hr of power per year.

Install cost divided by 20 years. Then yearly cost divided by yearly generation = 25.1c per unit cost for power from my solar and battery system.

My power company is Flick Electric. Taking my most expensive bill by far which covers crazy wholesale prices (some time periods the price was over $1 per unit!!!) That bill was 25.8c per unit (not including fixed daily fees) And if I pick a random earlier bill (from March) I paid 13.2c per unit.

Also the 3 cheapest power companies in my area - Electric Kiwi, Pulse Energy, and Flick electric. None of them AFAIK support grid connect solar. meaning you have to either switch to a more expensive power company, or get a solar system that by design is impossible for it to export power - basicly an off grid design system. Or a UPS style system that has has solar added onto it.

I am still planning to install a small solar system on my house. But will have to DIY it, And it will definitely be an impossible to export by design system.

tripper1000

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#1835481 2-Aug-2017 10:16

tdgeek:

... WE dont need new dams, we need a big push on solar and EV.....

Hey man, don't dis dams.

For any solution to succeed and perpetuate it must be economically viable. The reason why hydro is the dominate renewable resource world wide is because it is economical and is (or was here) commercially viable.

Solar is not economical, and is only popular (overseas) due to subsidies. History has shown us that as soon a subsides disappear the behaviour they encourage frequently also disappears. Solar has gotten cheaper due to mass-manufacturing encouraged by foreign subsidies. Once foreign subsidies and demand tapers off, solar will likely go back up in price here.

Dams also compliment cyclic renewables (wind/solar/tide) as a highly effective energy storage solution beating any and all batteries made or in design so far, so are important regardless.

The RMA has been used to block the construction of new dams. People who block hydro frequently pass them selves off as environmentalists, however I for one are extremely dubious of their environmental claims. Anyone who cares about the global environment and wants to be a decent global citizen should be embracing commercially viable renewable energy.

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