Transmission Gully toll looks more likely...

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#2047257 2-Jul-2018 10:11

mattwnz:

Geektastic:

nickb800: They have to do something about the induced demand that will follow the road opening. Otherwise we'll get gridlock on sh1 through to the city and spend billions fixing it.

Scarcity of parking in the CBD might be sufficient alone - people will think twice about driving if we have Auckland level daily parking fees.

Just raise them to London levels and I guarantee that they will think a lot more than twice about it!

Except it failed miserably. Now mainly only rich people drive into central London. When it was introduced, it was rare to see a car in central London, and was mainly used by buses and taxis. Tolls are a class thing, as rich people don't need to worry as they can afford to pay tolls easily. Where poor people pay a higher percentage of their earnings if they need to pay a toll.

I don't think primary roads into a region, including SH1, should be tolled. If TG is tolled, why on earth wasn't the Waterview tunnel project in Auckland tolled? eg Why are Wellingtonians being treated worse than Aucklanders?

Has the Waterview tunnel incurred this "induced demand" problem? Or was the supply of traffic already saturated?

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#2047260 2-Jul-2018 10:13

UHD:

The private sector investment was accepted in order to remove the need for tolls on the road. A bit disingenuous for Labour to now say they are necessary and always part of the plan.

Labour is doing a dam fine job.

kryptonjohn

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#2047261 2-Jul-2018 10:15

MikeB4: The toll will affect all New Zealand. It will be the main freight route linking South and North.

Yes, but a truck with a 40' container on it will only be paying around 0.02c/kg of payload for the toll so not sure anyone would notice.

MikeB4

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#2047262 2-Jul-2018 10:15

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

@Wiggum I am not referring to any work being done to reduce noise. If you actually drive along that road you would have seen the whitish stains appearing on the tar seal most of its length. That is water damage due to poor construction. There has been many announcements regarding this and the need to reseal a large percentage of the highway with the costs being shared between the contractor, Local bodies and the tax payer.

Yes, those white stains are where its leaking, and getting fixed. And for now, they are stains and not much more. There is a part with such stains between Waikanae Rd and paraparumu Rd, Its not the complete length like you make out. Part of the problem IMO being the noise reducing seal. Does it makes the road look 20 years old? Maybe to you, not to me. The road is a pleasure to drive.

That is not just cosmetic it is damage. The base levels are damaged resulting in water damaging the seal and causing the surface to break up and will peal away from the sub course. It should not be happening after a year.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

sbiddle

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#2047265 2-Jul-2018 10:18

Handle9:

sbiddle:

Handle9:

It doesn't appear to be a huge shock - it appears to have been signaled for quite some time.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10615848

https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Our-Work/Documents/Transmission-Gully-PPP-Cabinet-Nov-2012.pdf

In the early days Transmission Gully was going to be a toll road simply because it went nowhere for ~40 years until it ended up being funded by National.

The road will end up being a white elephant if it does become a toll road because plenty of people will simply choose to use the current route. All it will take is ~20% of traffic to be removed at peak hour (people who will opt to use the toll road) and the current SH1 route will have much of the congestion removed.

People said that Albany to Puhoi would be a white elephant. The road gets well used and most people pay the toll for the convenience.

Albany to Puhio is very different.

The toll road there can easily save 20 mins in drive time. Official NZTA data show Transmission Gully travel times between McKays and Linden vs the current SH1 will differ by only up to 5 mins or so. For heavy vehicles travel times will be very similar.

Transmission Gully isn't about building a road that will cut travel times significantly, it's about building resilience into the roading network.

If a toll goes ahead it will remove impatient people off SH1 who are prepared to pay to save some time. The advantage of this is that it removes the gridlock for everybody else.

kryptonjohn

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#2047268 2-Jul-2018 10:21

Handle9:

sbiddle:

Handle9:

It doesn't appear to be a huge shock - it appears to have been signaled for quite some time.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10615848

https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Our-Work/Documents/Transmission-Gully-PPP-Cabinet-Nov-2012.pdf

In the early days Transmission Gully was going to be a toll road simply because it went nowhere for ~40 years until it ended up being funded by National.

The road will end up being a white elephant if it does become a toll road because plenty of people will simply choose to use the current route. All it will take is ~20% of traffic to be removed at peak hour (people who will opt to use the toll road) and the current SH1 route will have much of the congestion removed.

People said that Albany to Puhoi would be a white elephant. The road gets well used and most people pay the toll for the convenience.

Yep the toll is cheap, and the technology works. I have an account with NZTA, and when I drive that road it just debits it - no stopping to pay, no need to go to a website to pay, it just goes bing. For the magnificent bit of road it is, I think that's a great deal all round.

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tdgeek

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#2047271 2-Jul-2018 10:22

sbiddle:

The toll road there can easily save 20 mins in drive time. Official NZTA data show Transmission Gully travel times between McKays and Linden vs the current SH1 will differ by only up to 5 mins or so. For heavy vehicles travel times will be very similar.

Transmission Gully isn't about building a road that will cut travel times significantly, it's about building resilience into the roading network.

If a toll goes ahead it will remove impatient people off SH1 who are prepared to pay to save some time. The advantage of this is that it removes the gridlock for everybody else.

Tks for that. Being a non Welly resident, I assumed it will be fewer km and faster km for drivers, thereby a fuel and/or time saver.

MikeB4

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#2047273 2-Jul-2018 10:26

sbiddle:

Handle9:

sbiddle:

Handle9:

It doesn't appear to be a huge shock - it appears to have been signaled for quite some time.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10615848

https://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Our-Work/Documents/Transmission-Gully-PPP-Cabinet-Nov-2012.pdf

In the early days Transmission Gully was going to be a toll road simply because it went nowhere for ~40 years until it ended up being funded by National.

The road will end up being a white elephant if it does become a toll road because plenty of people will simply choose to use the current route. All it will take is ~20% of traffic to be removed at peak hour (people who will opt to use the toll road) and the current SH1 route will have much of the congestion removed.

People said that Albany to Puhoi would be a white elephant. The road gets well used and most people pay the toll for the convenience.

Albany to Puhio is very different.

The toll road there can easily save 20 mins in drive time. Official NZTA data show Transmission Gully travel times between McKays and Linden vs the current SH1 will differ by only up to 5 mins or so. For heavy vehicles travel times will be very similar.

Transmission Gully isn't about building a road that will cut travel times significantly, it's about building resilience into the roading network.

If a toll goes ahead it will remove impatient people off SH1 who are prepared to pay to save some time. The advantage of this is that it removes the gridlock for everybody else.

I have some reservations for the route of Transmission Gully. I spent many many many days hunting and tramping through there. The valley walls are very steep and not made of stable material. It is also a very high rainfall area due to its orographic affect. There are many streams, springs and a lot of under the surface waterways that make the hills very prone to slipping. Also the prevailing northwesteries get funneled up the valley from the Paekakariki opening. Winter driving in there is going to be interesting.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

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#2047274 2-Jul-2018 10:28

tdgeek:

sbiddle:

The toll road there can easily save 20 mins in drive time. Official NZTA data show Transmission Gully travel times between McKays and Linden vs the current SH1 will differ by only up to 5 mins or so. For heavy vehicles travel times will be very similar.

Transmission Gully isn't about building a road that will cut travel times significantly, it's about building resilience into the roading network.

If a toll goes ahead it will remove impatient people off SH1 who are prepared to pay to save some time. The advantage of this is that it removes the gridlock for everybody else.

Tks for that. Being a non Welly resident, I assumed it will be fewer km and faster km for drivers, thereby a fuel and/or time saver.

Wellington in essence has 1.5 viable routes in and out. Strategically the national transport system has been very vulnerable at Wellington. Transmission Gully is very much a road of national significance.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Wiggum

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#2047276 2-Jul-2018 10:30

MikeB4:

I have some reservations for the route of Transmission Gully. I spent many many many days hunting and tramping through there. The valley walls are very steep and not made of stable material. It is also a very high rainfall area due to its orographic affect. There are many streams, springs and a lot of under the surface waterways that make the hills very prone to slipping. Also the prevailing northwesteries get funneled up the valley from the Paekakariki opening. Winter driving in there is going to be interesting.

You should try winter driving over Paekakariki Hill Rd. I do this drive home most afternoons because the traffic at Pukerua bay SH1 has just become ridiculous. On Thursday morning at around 8am a car went off and fell 60 meters.. Took over 2 hours for the poor man to be rescued.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105071083/car-with-man-inside-flew-60m-off-paekkriki-hill-rd

kryptonjohn

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#2047278 2-Jul-2018 10:34

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

I have some reservations for the route of Transmission Gully. I spent many many many days hunting and tramping through there. The valley walls are very steep and not made of stable material. It is also a very high rainfall area due to its orographic affect. There are many streams, springs and a lot of under the surface waterways that make the hills very prone to slipping. Also the prevailing northwesteries get funneled up the valley from the Paekakariki opening. Winter driving in there is going to be interesting.

You should try winter Driving over Paekakariki Hill Rd. I do this drive home most afternoons because the traffic at Pukerua bay SH1 has just become ridiculous. On Thursday morning at around 8am a car went off and fell 60 meters.. Took over 2 hours for the man to get rescued.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105071083/car-with-man-inside-flew-60m-off-paekkriki-hill-rd

I'll never forget as a student many decades ago, caning my poor old Subaru Omega up that road, heading north... then on the way down not realising my brakes were cooked. As I approached the right turn onto SH1 I was mashing the pedal down with both feet with little effect, and serenely coasted to a halt half way into the thankfully empty intersection. But what a fantastic drive on a nice day!

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MikeB4

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#2047281 2-Jul-2018 10:38

@Wiggum I have lost count how many times a year I drive over Battle Hill. I love that drive except for the muppets who think they are in a rally. The work for TG has made it a little slippery at the Pauatahanui end. And some meany changed the hump signs back again.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

MikeB4

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#2047301 2-Jul-2018 10:53

kryptonjohn:

Wiggum:

MikeB4:

I have some reservations for the route of Transmission Gully. I spent many many many days hunting and tramping through there. The valley walls are very steep and not made of stable material. It is also a very high rainfall area due to its orographic affect. There are many streams, springs and a lot of under the surface waterways that make the hills very prone to slipping. Also the prevailing northwesteries get funneled up the valley from the Paekakariki opening. Winter driving in there is going to be interesting.

You should try winter Driving over Paekakariki Hill Rd. I do this drive home most afternoons because the traffic at Pukerua bay SH1 has just become ridiculous. On Thursday morning at around 8am a car went off and fell 60 meters.. Took over 2 hours for the man to get rescued.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105071083/car-with-man-inside-flew-60m-off-paekkriki-hill-rd

I'll never forget as a student many decades ago, caning my poor old Subaru Omega up that road, heading north... then on the way down not realising my brakes were cooked. As I approached the right turn onto SH1 I was mashing the pedal down with both feet with little effect, and serenely coasted to a halt half way into the thankfully empty intersection. But what a fantastic drive on a nice day!

I know that travelling over that road in a Unimog really exercises ones sphincter

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Lias

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#2047351 2-Jul-2018 11:37

tdgeek:

You should have put what your issue is, and why, and what you feel is the solution.

TG should have been built decades ago, it finally gets under way, people like me are literally counting down the days until it opens, and labour want to tax it to encourage people to use their pet public transport because of their anti car views? Screw them.

The train service to Kapiti is more Kafkaesque than Japanese when it comes to operating reliably or on time, but even if it did run better it's still not a practical transport method for me currently. Right now I work in Grenada North, to commute via public transport I'd have to leave home at 06:27, take a bus, two trains (because all of the Kapiti trains are express at this hour you have to change at Porirua), then a nearly half hour walk because their is no bus service to Grenada North. Or I can leave home at 07:45 and drive to work in 30-40 minutes most days. Coming home is far more painful lately , averaging 60-70 minutes (80-90ish most Fridays, record is 126 minutes), but still generally quicker than public transport (98 minutes assuming it runs on time). Transmission Gully will in theory eliminate the delays at MacKays/Paekak, the coast road, Pukerua Bay & Mana/Plimmerton, giving me a nice smooth 25-30 minute commute at any time of day.

Rather than using a blanket toll to discourage use of TG, how about they get the train service in better condition? I had to use it the other week while my car was being repaired, and it's still as bad as it was when I used to commute to welly daily a few years ago. Breakdowns, delays, and cancellations abound. Maybe they should fire the entire KiwiRail and Metlink senior staff and subcontract things to Japan Railways.

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MikeB4

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#2047353 2-Jul-2018 11:41

@Lias you forgot a point about the rail. The shut down of the service for a day in order to remove a can or large leaf from beside the tracks

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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