EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2968834 15-Sep-2022 21:50

Batman:

https://www.mgmotor.eu/model/marvel-r

3 motors

2 speed gearbox

but how far will it go ... and how fast will the battery degrade ...

hopefully it's a start to many good things, tech can only improve i guess

Very interesting offer.

The range question is answered on the site you link 402 / 402 / 370 km WLTP range for the Comfort / Luxury / Performance Versions respectively.

Regarding battery life, Given they are hyping density in the battery pack it is likely they are using the NCM 811 cell chemistry. A new take on the "Normal" EV battery chemistry. Imagine it should last similar to other liquid cooled NCM packs. Korean brands, Last generation MG ZS EV, Long range Tesla's. Not as good as the lower energy density LFP chemistry.

Probably the most exciting aspect is the price.

As an example german pricing is EUR46,990 to EUR50,990. For comparison the Kia EV6 RWD long range which comes is just shy of the $80k rebate cap in NZ is priced at EUR50,990 in Germany.

Good stuff:

Price - getting a fully loaded AWD car for less than the NZ $80k rebate cap is extremely impressive. There are currently no other AWD pure EV's for less than $80k
150L frunk Size on RWD versions
Heat pump
Vehicle to load
Good general level of specification (i.e. powered driver and passenger seats on all trims, power tailgate all trims, 360 degree camera on top 2 trims)
Good performance, 0-100 (s): Comfort/Luxury: 7.9 / Performance: 4.9

Bad:

Duel rear motors aren't configured to drive the left and right wheel as I assumed, but rather do some clever stuff for efficiency together with the two speed transmission. Nothing wrong with this, but I was hoping it would be without a rear differential and enable stuff like torque vectoring.
Ground clearance 133.9mm 2wd, 131.9mm AWD, is getting pritty low considering they are marketing this as an SUV. It's less than a Camry... (145mm)
Small boot (357L)
Slow DC charging (5-80% in 43mins)
Low Payload: 478kg (Rwd) / 453kg (AWD). LOL at them having a picture of the car towing a trailer with 2x bikes on it in their marketing material.
Low tow rating for segment (750kg)
Poor efficiency: RWD: 194.1 Wh/km, AWD: 209 Wh/km

Would like to see the Marvel R offered in NZ, but frankly I think MG has other lower hanging fruit.

- The Long range version of the MG ZS EV. They are already selling the Standard range version in NZ (deliveries of the New Shape before the end of the year). Standard range is a LFP battery with cira 310km range, Long range is a NMC battery with cira 440km range. Latter carries about a GBP 1,500 premium.
- The MG5. GBP1500 more than the base MG ZS EV. 479L boot (to luggage cover), or 578L to roof, 402km rated range. Substantially better efficiency than the MG ZS EV. Currently there is no lowish priced pure EV wagon in NZ, so offering this car (that is already in production) would capture the niche of people who want non luxary EV wagon.

wellygary

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#2968908 16-Sep-2022 09:08

Scott3:

Very interesting offer.

Its going to be very polarising with a 20" ipad between the two front seats,

Also the carry bikes by towing them on a trailer is just plain bonkers....

kingdragonfly

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#2968912 16-Sep-2022 09:14

Reuters: China's BYD to start EV production in Thailand by 2024

BYD to produce 150,000 EVs per year in Thailand in 2024

Plant in Rayong will be size of 96 hectares (237 acres)

Thailand approved BYD project worth NZD 822 million in August

AutoNews: Japan says the new U.S. EV tax credits might violate international law

The law restricts tax credits for electric vehicles to those assembled in North America.

Linuxluver

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#2969049 16-Sep-2022 10:51

Batman:
https://www.mgmotor.eu/model/marvel-r

3 motors

2 speed gearbox

but how far will it go ... and how fast will the battery degrade ...

hopefully it's a start to many good things, tech can only improve i guess

Battery degradation is one of those things that isn't really an issue in the new cars. They all have liquid-cooled battery packs. They all have enough range that almost all driving in a day sees the car return to it's base (home or work) and be able to AC charge at a gentle speed. So the battery rarely gets too warm from fast charging repeatedly (BIG trip required now). Plus it's easier to operate the car in the 20% to 80% charge range because that's still 200 or more km even for a car like the MG ZS EV version 1.

But even if the battery of a car with 400+ km of range decades to 80% in 7 years .... That's still 320km if range might require one additional charge on a 650km road trip. Even after 15 years and on maybe 50%, the car can still do over 200km on a charge. We're talking about 2035 now ...... If we count from 2020.

It's just not a practical issue, really.

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GV27

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#2969068 16-Sep-2022 12:07

Linuxluver:

But even if the battery of a car with 400+ km of range decades to 80% in 7 years .... That's still 320km if range might require one additional charge on a 650km road trip. Even after 15 years and on maybe 50%, the car can still do over 200km on a charge. We're talking about 2035 now ...... If we count from 2020.

It's just not a practical issue, really.

Modern LFPs are getting dangerously close to million-mile chemistries when cooling systems are thrown into the mix. That's to 80%.

I believe in the Shanghai-sourced M3s actually tells you to charge to 100% to prolong battery life? We're now talking about that kind of capability in cars that will be close to $40K after rebate or possibly under. That's effectively a 30% improvement in value proposition in only a few years.

Even a 270km LFP battery in a Leaf that can cope with repeated fast-charging would be a huge upgrade over the packs that people started out with.

Scott3

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#2969075 16-Sep-2022 12:28

wellygary:

Also the carry bikes by towing them on a trailer is just plain bonkers....

While it is a laughable photo to use in marketing with just two bikes on the trailer, this is going to become a lot more common, especially in Europe.

29er mountain bikes have boomed in popularity. They can be cira 2m long, so will be sticking out cira 100mm each side of a typical 1.8m width car when on a hitch hitch rack. Workable, but not ideal. Generally more award to handle than a 27.5" bike.

SUV's are booming in popularity - harder to load a 1.8m tall suv that a 1.5m tall wagon roof.

e-bikes are booming in popularity, and many are heavy. Looked up a random giant mountain bike and it was 23kg, understand some commuter style ebikes are 30kg.

The combination of things makes traditional ways of bike transport less workable.

Car's roof load limits don't go that far. Atto 3 has a 50kg limit, MG ZS EV is 75kg, EV6 is 80kg, Hilux is 80kg, Ford Everest 100kg (except the top spec version which is 80kg). Pritty much means you are limed to two ebikes on the roof (once you allow a few kg's for rack's), on most small to medium sized car's. And that is assuming you have somebody strong enough to lift them up.

Similar deal with max vertical load on towbar's. Many vehicles have fairly low ratings. MG ZS EV: 50kg, EV6 100kg etc. (big 4x4's for the US / AUST market often have 250kg+ Euro market vehicles tend to have less.).

And of course it is fairly easy to overload the rear axle, or the vehicle as a whole. 4x 25kg ebikes + say 4x 80kg people + 50kg of towbar, racking, straps etc = 470kg. you are already over the payload of the AWD MG Marvel-R, and within 5kg of the payload of the RWD version. (and that is before you have counted other gear that you are bringing along).

Pritty much means if you want to take 4 adult sized people and ebikes on holiday, and want a smallish car to daily drive, your only option to not overload is to tow trailer.

In the UK there are multiple brands who build bike trailers like the one in the picture.

Should note that NZ had minimal enforcement of light vehicle loading, and you can exceed the manufacturer payload as long as the loading is not "Unsafe". In other jurisdictions you must strictly follow the manufactures ratings (or have a GVM upgrade approved by an engineer), so loading cars in the way kiwi's often do at holiday time would risk a fine.

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kingdragonfly

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#2969236 16-Sep-2022 16:08

Trump rambling on electric cars with MAGA fan-boy Hugh Hewitt:

"…I kept energy prices down.

A big factor what happened to him with the energy policies is so stupid and this whole new thing with electric cars where all of the material for batteries comes out of China or China.

You know Congo, which is controlled by China, but it all comes out of China

When we have we have what we have. We have a thing called gasoline and that all comes from us.

We have more than anybody else the oil and gas and it's so crazy what they're doing they give.

…The single greatest gift that we've ever given to China will be the electric car that will really kill us with China because they have all the material for the batteries we don't have that. We don't have that, but we do have the gasoline for the cars that people want

…I'm not against electric cars. I personally don't like them because they don't go long enough, they don't go far enough. You have to stop for two hours and that's not going to get that much better no matter what they do so."

everettpsycho

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#2969282 16-Sep-2022 18:24

Is anyone else in Christchurch thinking of heading to the take charge event over the weekend?

https://ccc.govt.nz/news-and-events/whats-on/event/take-charge-christchurch-expo

We might pop in even if it's just to be nosey at Te Pae seeing as it's a free event. Might be a good chance to see the newer vehicles in the flesh all in one place.

tdgeek

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#2969284 16-Sep-2022 18:33

everettpsycho: Is anyone else in Christchurch thinking of heading to the take charge event over the weekend?

https://ccc.govt.nz/news-and-events/whats-on/event/take-charge-christchurch-expo

We might pop in even if it's just to be nosey at Te Pae seeing as it's a free event. Might be a good chance to see the newer vehicles in the flesh all in one place.

Im tied up this weekend but it looks great. Why is it that I only heard of it here???

News

Media

etc etc, nothing Ive seen. Apart from GZ

Scott3

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#2969308 16-Sep-2022 19:45

Launch of the MG ZS EV facelift was yesterday.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/129904227/first-drive-review-mg-zs-ev

Quite a bit step up on the outgoing car.

- Motor power increase from 105kW to 130kW

- Change of battery chemistry from NMC to LFP (latter should give much more life, so much so that there isn't any issue charging to 100% every day)

- Massive increase in range 220km WLTP -> 320km WLPT

- Facelift exterior

- Now with two spec levels (lower comparable to outgoing car)

- Few extra features such as 360 degree camera.

- Tow rating goes from 0 to 500kg.

- Payload increased by 90kg.

And the Base version is still NZ's cheapest EV.

everettpsycho

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#2969317 16-Sep-2022 20:23

tdgeek:
everettpsycho: Is anyone else in Christchurch thinking of heading to the take charge event over the weekend?

https://ccc.govt.nz/news-and-events/whats-on/event/take-charge-christchurch-expo

We might pop in even if it's just to be nosey at Te Pae seeing as it's a free event. Might be a good chance to see the newer vehicles in the flesh all in one place.

Im tied up this weekend but it looks great. Why is it that I only heard of it here???

News

Media

etc etc, nothing Ive seen. Apart from GZ

I got recommended a stuff write up on it by Google a few days back but forgot to put it up on here. Don't feel like it's been well publicized at all and I would have thought it would be on things like the ev Facebook groups but I've not seen it anywhere since that article popped up. Be interesting to see how busy it actually is.

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Batman

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#2969337 16-Sep-2022 21:49

Scott3:

e-bikes are booming in popularity, and many are heavy. Looked up a random giant mountain bike and it was 23kg, understand some commuter style ebikes are 30kg.

The combination of things makes traditional ways of bike transport less workable.

Car's roof load limits don't go that far. Atto 3 has a 50kg limit, MG ZS EV is 75kg, EV6 is 80kg, Hilux is 80kg, Ford Everest 100kg (except the top spec version which is 80kg). Pritty much means you are limed to two ebikes on the roof (once you allow a few kg's for rack's), on most small to medium sized car's. And that is assuming you have somebody strong enough to lift them up.

Similar deal with max vertical load on towbar's. Many vehicles have fairly low ratings. MG ZS EV: 50kg, EV6 100kg etc. (big 4x4's for the US / AUST market often have 250kg+ Euro market vehicles tend to have less.).

And of course it is fairly easy to overload the rear axle, or the vehicle as a whole. 4x 25kg ebikes + say 4x 80kg people + 50kg of towbar, racking, straps etc = 470kg. you are already over the payload of the AWD MG Marvel-R, and within 5kg of the payload of the RWD version. (and that is before you have counted other gear that you are bringing along).

Pritty much means if you want to take 4 adult sized people and ebikes on holiday, and want a smallish car to daily drive, your only option to not overload is to tow trailer.

if you can lift an e bike onto the roof of any vehicle you wouldn't be needing an e bike

everettpsycho

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#2969447 17-Sep-2022 15:04

everettpsycho: Is anyone else in Christchurch thinking of heading to the take charge event over the weekend?

https://ccc.govt.nz/news-and-events/whats-on/event/take-charge-christchurch-expo

We might pop in even if it's just to be nosey at Te Pae seeing as it's a free event. Might be a good chance to see the newer vehicles in the flesh all in one place.

We went along to this earlier and it was cool but literally just a load of cars parked up from most confirmed manufacturers. Very much felt like each dealership sent a car and one sales rep and there was no representation from the brands themselves, just the local dealerships. You generally could get to see the vehicles easier with less crowding just visiting the appropriate dealership.

Feels like a missed opportunity and would have been nice to get some unreleased vehicles or brand representation for people to see. If you can't get in to town to attend you won't be missing loads, but worth a stop by if your at all interested and in town anyway.

clinty

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#2969687 18-Sep-2022 11:57

There are a few that aren't in dealership yet - Subaru Solterra, Ford Mach-E, plus the electric motorcycles that don't often get mentioned here :)

Interesting to see who has come along crowdwise - very eclectic bunch :D

Clint

GV27

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#2969690 18-Sep-2022 12:02

clinty: There are a few that aren't in dealership yet - Subaru Solterra, Ford Mach-E, plus the electric motorcycles that don't often get mentioned here :)

Interesting to see who has come along crowdwise - very eclectic bunch :D

Clint

Have they fixed that issue with the Toyota where the wheels don't quite stay on? Wonder if the Solterra is affected, the American ones never materialised for reviews and apparently motoring journalists are totally in the dark about what the plans are.

What's current consensus on home-charging using an EVSE? We're looking at moving in a year or so don't want to overcapitalise with a wall charger, but I'm seeing some allusion to WorkSafe saying caravan plugs are no longer a good method for charging an EV.

Thinking I might get an outdoor 10A socket fitted and leave it at that, given I'm more likely to find three-pin sockets in a bind than caravan plugs and I don't want to shell out $500 for 2 EVSEs.

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