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Topic # 179309 3-Sep-2015 14:41
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Not wanting to start a car vs bike war, but a few thoughts. 

The proposed new law is that cars give cyclist 1m of breathing room in areas with speed limit of less than 60km and 1.5m on faster roads.

I'm not sure our roading network is actually up to the proposed law. 

There are lots of places where it will be possible to pass cyclist with the required margin due to congestion in both directions or no passing lines.

I hope the minister of transport gives this serious thought.  The proposed law change could cause more problems/conflict than it solves.




Mike

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  Reply # 1379142 3-Sep-2015 14:48
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If there isn't a dedicated bike lane I don't see how this is even possible?

Particularly if there are cars parked on the side of the road - a 1m buffer would put you on the other side of the median.

Also how do you enforce it? Drive with rulers attached?

edit: I 100% agree bikers should be separate from cars - I used to cycle to work and had dodgy situations regularly. Dedicated bike lanes (with physical separation as per the current henderson to city one) are the answer but can only go so far.

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  Reply # 1379143 3-Sep-2015 14:49
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Seems to me like he hasn't thought this through fully

 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 1379147 3-Sep-2015 14:52
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The Minister is consulting so time to give your views on this...

I could note that where Motorways exist, then cyclists are not allowed and that in my experience of driving around mainly the lower north island, that outside of the towns, the traffic is not so heavy you can wait 30 seconds for a vehicle to pass the other way to overtake in most places. Winding roads are another matter but what happens if you come upon a tractor out? In one US state, the local police actually have been out measuring this passing distance with police on bikes so it is enforceable, how much enforcement that might be carried out here is a big consideration too. 

Finally I should point out that the speed limits are just that. Yes most traffic seems to want to go at the limit (or above) but it should not be a target. 

edit for spelling





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  Reply # 1379149 3-Sep-2015 14:54
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I agree the roading network is probably not up to it. I'm all for separated bike lanes where possible. Inner city areas should also be car free where possible. We should be encouraging people to park out of city centres and walk, take public transport or cycle around these high density places.

1-1.5m will be challenging is some places, and may cause traffic to build up behind slower cyclists where cars don't have an opportunity to pass. Unless the cyclist is doing the speed of traffic, they should also always ride single file. 

What does annoy me is blatant disregard for road rules by cyclists such as running red lights




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  Reply # 1379153 3-Sep-2015 14:56
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ajobbins: What does annoy me is blatant disregard for road rules by cyclists such as running red lights


These discussions very quickly become about "cyclists".

There are arses on bikes that set a bad example in the same way there are arses in cars. We just remember the bad experiences rather than the non-eventful ones.

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  Reply # 1379154 3-Sep-2015 14:59
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MikeAqua: Not wanting to start a car vs bike war, but a few thoughts. 

The proposed new law is that cars give cyclist 1m of breathing room in areas with speed limit of less than 60km and 1.5m on faster roads.


Wording on this would be very important.  For instance if I was stopped at a red light, and a bike sneaks up the side of the traffic queue to the front of the queue within 1m of me am I now breaking the law?




Warning: reality may differ from above post

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  Reply # 1379155 3-Sep-2015 15:02
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qyiet:
MikeAqua: Not wanting to start a car vs bike war, but a few thoughts. 

The proposed new law is that cars give cyclist 1m of breathing room in areas with speed limit of less than 60km and 1.5m on faster roads.


Wording on this would be very important.  For instance if I was stopped at a red light, and a bike sneaks up the side of the traffic queue to the front of the queue within 1m of me am I now breaking the law?


or better yet, I'm slowing down or in crawling traffic, does the bike that passes me on the left get a ticket for clearly breaking the law? No, because the road rules only apply to cars

do I get a ticket for hitting him when I turn left? I shouldn't because legally he shouldn't have been passing me




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  Reply # 1379157 3-Sep-2015 15:04
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MikeAqua: Not wanting to start a car vs bike war, but a few thoughts.

and so it begins.

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  Reply # 1379158 3-Sep-2015 15:04
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I don't see this law as being enforcable.  You'd have to be sitting watching the traffic to see how the gap of under 1.5m came about.

What this law might be good for is to set an expectation for drivers that they need to be further away from cyclists when passing them.

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  Reply # 1379159 3-Sep-2015 15:05
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I agree in principle with the intent, but as always the devil will be in the details.   I suspect enforcement will be either by way of 'after the crash' investigation, or probably rare Police 'observations'.  For example if a cyclist gets clipped by a side mirror.  I doubt this will have a wholesale effect on most road users.    




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  Reply # 1379161 3-Sep-2015 15:08
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I ride a bike and drive cars and trucks, so looking at it from both sides of the fence.

Not sure that setting a clearance distance is the way to go.

I would prefer that cyclists and drivers use their common sense to allow both to safely travel on our roads.
Both need to be prepared to give way at times to get the best outcome for a particular situation.



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  Reply # 1379184 3-Sep-2015 15:33
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Road rules supposedly apply to anyone using a vehicle.  But bikes are hard to identify, so enforcement is more difficult, especially in congested traffic.

I wondered if the law could be reciprocal i.e. cyclist doesn't pass inside of a car when they can't maintain a 1m gap?



or better yet, I'm slowing down or in crawling traffic, does the bike that passes me on the left get a ticket for clearly breaking the law? No, because the road rules only apply to cars

do I get a ticket for hitting him when I turn left? I shouldn't because legally he shouldn't have been passing me




Mike

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  Reply # 1379216 3-Sep-2015 15:35
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I thought 1.5m was already the rule.
Is it that there a difference between 'road code rule' and 'Law'?
Without further info, I interpret this as a reduction of the buffer for lower speed limit roads.

Could maybe 'enforce' it with some sort of lightweight clip-on pole sticking out with a flag or marker on the end? :P

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  Reply # 1379217 3-Sep-2015 15:37
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wasabi2k: 

Particularly if there are cars parked on the side of the road - a 1m buffer would put you on the other side of the median.



So??? In this case the car driver would wait until there was a gap in the opposing traffic before overtaking the cycle. I don't see the difficulty. This is no different from overtaking any other vehicle.

I think that we've been saving money for years by not widening roads and not creating cycle lanes at the risk of cyclists' safety. Now that cyclist safety is rightly put at the forefront, this work will get done.




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  Reply # 1379221 3-Sep-2015 15:45
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Won't happen.

N

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