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thermonuclear
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  #3356504 23-Mar-2025 12:14
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The Red Bull is a dog with fleas. If Verstappen wasn't there you could slap some green stickers on it, call it a Sauber, and no one would really notice. I think if you offered to grab the RB's late one night and paint them in the Red Bull livery for the rest of the season, Lawson and Verstappen would both bite your hand off. That car has the same PU so it's fast, and it has a much better aero solution it seems. And, Verstappen wants to win his fifth WDC. I don't think he stands a chance of that in the RB21.

 

Thought it was decent of Verstappen to stand up for Lawson in his recent comments to the media. He's as much as said the 2025 car isn't up to it despite feeling comfortable in it. It's as bad as any team on the grid with the tire deg, and it's slow due to lack of grip. The optimal operating window is as small as last year even if the balance has been improved. Something has to give, I don't see how Wache holds onto his job, the car has gone nowhere since he took over leadership of the design team after Newey was moved along.

 

I hope Lawson can make up some places during the race this afternoon but that's looking like an enormous task once you get much above P15 on the grid. He will know what his contract KPI's are so he will know exactly how many race weekends he has to try and turn the ship around. Fortunately he has raced at Suzuka in F1 and in Super Formula. The SF teams are based at the track I think, and he had that epic battle with Tsunoda in 2023 when they raced side by side off the line through a few corners before Lawson got ahead of him. I think if he can't get some positive performance going there then it's really not looking good for him and we will see the real commitment Red Bull has to their statements of giving Lawson time.

 

Red Bull's bigger problem is that car though, Verstappen is going to get sick of driving it at 11/10ths with no realistic chance of victory unless all of Norris, Piastri, Leclerc, Hamilton, Russell and Antonelli have a bad weekend first.




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  #3356507 23-Mar-2025 12:50
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For sure. If Liam was just plain slow, well ok, not good enough. It actually shows context with Perez who was batted away by many of us, myself included. He is a very experienced driver and winner but he couldn't get a handle on the 2024 car. Same issues now, if not more. End of the day it seems that RBR swapped out one quality driver with another, but the car is still the same. Read some comments on the odd forum. Sympathy for Liam, based pretty much on Thermo's post above. Its easy, and sensible to bat away professional sportspeople if they don't perform. A good race or a bad one usually isn't the driver, its the package, and the car section ain't delivering. Someone on Sky F1 suggested Perez is laughing at how Liam is going. Id suggest he's laughing at RBR, "I told you so, its the car not me" 

 

I do expect that he will progress nicely through the field, but IMHO, the Red Bull rust has set in with Marko. Horner has gone luke warm too. If Hadjar gets in after the 5 flyaways, I expect him to have less speed than Liam, and likely more off track excursions, that will be another young driver kicked to touch after his get to 3/10 of Max doesnt work out in a short few races

 

/rantover!


Jaxson

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  #3356517 23-Mar-2025 13:34
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Biggest concern here is Liam being dumped out of F1 altogether.
Best scenario is he somehow instantly makes it all work, after that ideally a swap back to the Racing Bulls (honestly who names this team!?).
Liam in a confidence inspiring car could be ideal for him now, especially if Yuki can't make the Red Bull work either.

Stepping away from the Liam aspect, it's crazy how Daniel Ricciardo threw everything away leaving that team.
Outside of Perez he was the only one who looks to have been able to drive ok with a car that suited Max.
Mind you we'll never know the real inside story but, hindsight being a wonderful thing and all, he really should have just stayed put.
Once broken trying to adjust your natural driving style, it's very hard to get things back, and I hope that doesn't impact Liam too much either trying to make this years RB actually work.




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  #3356613 23-Mar-2025 17:40
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Jaxson:

 

Biggest concern here is Liam being dumped out of F1 altogether.
Best scenario is he somehow instantly makes it all work, after that ideally a swap back to the Racing Bulls (honestly who names this team!?).
Liam in a confidence inspiring car could be ideal for him now, especially if Yuki can't make the Red Bull work either.

Stepping away from the Liam aspect, it's crazy how Daniel Ricciardo threw everything away leaving that team.
Outside of Perez he was the only one who looks to have been able to drive ok with a car that suited Max.
Mind you we'll never know the real inside story but, hindsight being a wonderful thing and all, he really should have just stayed put.
Once broken trying to adjust your natural driving style, it's very hard to get things back, and I hope that doesn't impact Liam too much either trying to make this years RB actually work.

 

 

100%

 

The more I think about it, maybe its best Liam gets dumped to Racing Bulls. The reason he is in RBR compared to Yuki is that he performed with zero experience, and in the case of filling in for Danny Ricc, zero notice. He got the nod as he equalled or bettered Yuki, so it was they are more or less equal but one had 87 races in F1 the other had the potential. Everyone likes Yuki. His good bit not great, arguably not very good, he is solid. A bit like Ocon and Gasly, deserves the place but not a game changer. Liam isnt a game changer, but he could be. If he wasnt, he like Ocon and Gasly deserves the place.

 

Liam wise if he was dumped he would go back to Racing Bulls. A) that makes sense to get another year of experience, B) it would make RBR look dumb.

 

Liam showed plenty of potential with zero experience, thats why he was picked. Ive been an RBR fan since the Mark Webber days but its getting very very toxic. Perez had ages of chances, so did Logan Sargent. Liam after a wet race when he did 47 laps, unlike Sainz and Alonso, thats promising. Hard car to drive, cut some slack, but there is no slack. I get to that its F1 if you don't perform you are out, but you need to KNOW that. Is he for some reason really really average??? No. If he played cricket or tennis or golf, its on him, but in F1 its package of the driver and the car.

 

The Marko and Horner comments say that he is gone burger. Hadjar is the next big thing apparently.  


Asteros
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  #3356760 23-Mar-2025 22:43
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Looks like deg on the Hard wasn't a problem. The 2 stoppers lost out big time.


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  #3356787 24-Mar-2025 06:55
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Yes, it was always a 2 stop due to deg, then it wasnt. Looks like RBR is poor on high fuel, but competitive on low fuel. Matches with the sprint race. 

 

Liam, man. Started with hards, but didnt do a long stint, barely longer than the medium 2 stoppers. Then when on the hard at the end, the others in front were on medium or hard with less laps wear. He has last 3 flyaways, then I feel that will be that.

 

Mercedes are looking better and better, although Antonelli didnt do much, started 8th finished 8th.

 

Racing Bulls seem to go the opposite way to Red Bull, dod on low fuel, not so much on high fuel.

 

Hard to know how track dependent China was for each team, last 3 flyaways will answer that.

 

Red Bull are clear 4th best team, no question on that even this early in 


 
 
 

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mudguard
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  #3356791 24-Mar-2025 07:38
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Sheesh. Ferrari DQd, skid plate wear, Gasly underweight too


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  #3356792 24-Mar-2025 07:41
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Reports in the paddock that RBR are considering Yuki for Japan. Horner also wont confirm that Liam will be in the car in Japan. Then when you watch RBR talking about the car, they talk about the issues with the car. And about supporting Liam. I guess the takeaway is they feel they allowed for his newness and the car issues but he is still further back, allowing for those factors. So, they rate Yuki over Hadjar. In the same car Yuki and Liam were close, Liam had the edge in 2023 and Yuki in 2024. So we may see Liam vs Yuki in a RB21, we may need an extra beep meter in Yuki's car


Asteros
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  #3356801 24-Mar-2025 08:22
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If Racing Bulls commits to giving Liam a season long drive, subject to the usual performance requirements, I think that wouldn't be a bad move for his career and a chance to rebuild his confidence. It seems things are likely pointing to Yuki  debuting in the Red Bull at Suzuka, which is an awesome old school track and a real test of a driver's ability.


mentalinc
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  #3356806 24-Mar-2025 08:50
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Not really an F1 person, but showing a bit of interest with Lawson.

 

He started on H, most on M, then everyone changed to H in first pit, and he changed to M?

 

Kinda feels like they are doing A/B testing with the car setup to find what will make Max go faster overall. getting two data feeds from the same car in the same condition?

 

 





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GV27
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  #3356815 24-Mar-2025 09:07
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mentalinc:

 

Kinda feels like they are doing A/B testing with the car setup to find what will make Max go faster overall. getting two data feeds from the same car in the same condition?

 

 

I don't think they understand the car well enough for that to work. Max seems to be doing something superhuman with it and Lawson is struggling to find a level of performance that we know he can produce in a compliant car. 


 
 
 
 

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Benoire
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  #3356823 24-Mar-2025 09:31
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I refer back to earlier posts about Albons comment when he drove the RBR.  How many drivers have they chewed through since Riccardio left?  I still believe that they have kinda dialed in the car to max's preference and that is a 100% twitchy front end that no one else can or wants to drive... I wonder if they dial back away to something that both drivers can achieve with, Max won't be as fast?  Either way, RBR have an issue and Lawson is necessarily it... I think Tsunoda will also suffer badly given how nice the RB seems to drive.


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  #3356828 24-Mar-2025 09:50
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mentalinc:

 

He started on H, most on M, then everyone changed to H in first pit, and he changed to M?

 

 

This really killed the chances he had (the timing of his first pit stop and the change to mediums) - was going OK until then and looked like if he could eek out a 1 stop then points were a potential. Bit of a shame (for him).


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  #3356840 24-Mar-2025 10:25
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Asteros:

 

If Racing Bulls commits to giving Liam a season long drive, subject to the usual performance requirements, I think that wouldn't be a bad move for his career and a chance to rebuild his confidence. It seems things are likely pointing to Yuki  debuting in the Red Bull at Suzuka, which is an awesome old school track and a real test of a driver's ability.

 

 

Agree. As I alluded to earlier, its a poisoned chalice. Not due to Max but due to the RB21. Let Yuki have a crack, that will show that Yuki is superior, or the car sucks. Even the "be 3/10 behind Max" is tough, given that he is the best driver on the grid and he can drive around issues. Almost like you are a rookie we expect you to be 1/10 behind Lewis, Charles, Lando, Oscar etc


tdgeek
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  #3356841 24-Mar-2025 10:28
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GV27:

 

mentalinc:

 

Kinda feels like they are doing A/B testing with the car setup to find what will make Max go faster overall. getting two data feeds from the same car in the same condition?

 

 

I don't think they understand the car well enough for that to work. Max seems to be doing something superhuman with it and Lawson is struggling to find a level of performance that we know he can produce in a compliant car. 

 

 

Agree. They don't understand the issue, with Liam they threw big suspension changes, and crossed their fingers. While it didnt work out, it was actually worse, it might have given some insight which they could apply to both cars. In some ways it could be seen as A/B testing, but in a clutching at straws way


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