The Official 2016 FIA Formula 1 Discussion Thread

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#1553753 16-May-2016 22:21

tdgeek:

joker97:

tdgeek:

That was an entertaining race.

Mercedes. Both at fault. Rosberg was slow as fixing being on the wrong mode, Lewis committed too soon into a gap. No penalties. Normally the speed differential would have been a lot less, and it wouldn't have happened.

Ricciardo was unlucky. Strategy had his middle stint losing time over 5 or 6 laps. If that was right he could have been at Vettel sooner, and those two would have closed the gap, making it a possible 4 way battle.

Max, well. Super drive. While he didn't do much that was awesome, he was mistake free. At 18, thats magnified.

Lewis didnt want to talk about the accident, whereas Rosberg saw it as his fault, he let that much out.

Rosberg has contract for next year, lewis supposedly doesnt amid rumours he might leave. Sabbatical, no way. Where else? Can only be Ferrari, alongside Vettel.

1. Hamilton and Vettel? Oh no, it will be worse than with Alonso.

2. What ROsberg did to Hamilton is what Hamilton does to ROsberg day in, day out. The only difference is, ROsberg will lift off, avoiding what happens to Lewis when he doesn't lift off. Granted, the difference in this situation is ROsberg was in the wrong mode. So, blame is 50-50. In fact no blame.

3. Max did really really well by not making a single mistake after being pressured by iceman for a loooooong time. I feel for Kimi. I so was hoping he'd finally get a win. Good on Max.

4. Big loser of the day, Ricciardo ;p

Vettel and Hamilton get on pretty well I think. But, while I admire his speed and talent, I don't like his attitude. If he wins he's GREAT, then if he loses he's sour. Now, you will get the good day and the bad day with anyone, but its like he thinks he's a step above the others. keeps to himself in the track parade. These little body language things arent a great look. He used to slip up with questioned, now he takes the PC middle road, albeit scripted, pretty artificial. AND he gave little acknowlegement to Max, and that was only when asked before he walked away. Ouch. Then it was a polite, short comment.

I have no idea who you're referring to, I can only guess it's the sour puss.

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#1553765 16-May-2016 22:54

tdgeek:

That was an entertaining race.

Mercedes. Both at fault. Rosberg was slow as fixing being on the wrong mode, Lewis committed too soon into a gap. No penalties. Normally the speed differential would have been a lot less, and it wouldn't have happened.

Ricciardo was unlucky. Strategy had his middle stint losing time over 5 or 6 laps. If that was right he could have been at Vettel sooner, and those two would have closed the gap, making it a possible 4 way battle.

Max, well. Super drive. While he didn't do much that was awesome, he was mistake free. At 18, thats magnified.

Lewis didnt want to talk about the accident, whereas Rosberg saw it as his fault, he let that much out.

Rosberg has contract for next year, lewis supposedly doesnt amid rumours he might leave. Sabbatical, no way. Where else? Can only be Ferrari, alongside Vettel.

It was much more entertaining than I was expecting! Lots of good battles for the win when you don't have those 2 cars out in front.

I can't see both Hamilton & Rosberg being at Mercedes next year, too much has gone on between them and I think Merc will look to bring in someone for the future. If Rosberg has a contract for next year then I guess it's him staying (especially if he wins the championship this year), but if not it wouldn't surprise me if his contract was brought out and Hamilton retained.

If Hamilton was to leave Merc I don't think he will go to Ferrari, he will want to be the no1 driver where ever he goes and Ferrari seem happy with Vettel. I cant see either RBR driver changing (now), and I don't think Hamilton would drive a car that's not capable of winning a championship (so not Renault, Hass, Manor, Sauber, McLaren) leaving only Williams, Force India or Toro Rosso. Out of those Williams would be the only outside chance, but I think that's unlikely too.

Personally I see Hamilton as the Floyd Mayweather Jr of F1.

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#1553768 16-May-2016 22:56

joker97:

tdgeek:

joker97:

tdgeek:

That was an entertaining race.

Mercedes. Both at fault. Rosberg was slow as fixing being on the wrong mode, Lewis committed too soon into a gap. No penalties. Normally the speed differential would have been a lot less, and it wouldn't have happened.

Ricciardo was unlucky. Strategy had his middle stint losing time over 5 or 6 laps. If that was right he could have been at Vettel sooner, and those two would have closed the gap, making it a possible 4 way battle.

Max, well. Super drive. While he didn't do much that was awesome, he was mistake free. At 18, thats magnified.

Lewis didnt want to talk about the accident, whereas Rosberg saw it as his fault, he let that much out.

Rosberg has contract for next year, lewis supposedly doesnt amid rumours he might leave. Sabbatical, no way. Where else? Can only be Ferrari, alongside Vettel.

1. Hamilton and Vettel? Oh no, it will be worse than with Alonso.

2. What ROsberg did to Hamilton is what Hamilton does to ROsberg day in, day out. The only difference is, ROsberg will lift off, avoiding what happens to Lewis when he doesn't lift off. Granted, the difference in this situation is ROsberg was in the wrong mode. So, blame is 50-50. In fact no blame.

3. Max did really really well by not making a single mistake after being pressured by iceman for a loooooong time. I feel for Kimi. I so was hoping he'd finally get a win. Good on Max.

4. Big loser of the day, Ricciardo ;p

Vettel and Hamilton get on pretty well I think. But, while I admire his speed and talent, I don't like his attitude. If he wins he's GREAT, then if he loses he's sour. Now, you will get the good day and the bad day with anyone, but its like he thinks he's a step above the others. keeps to himself in the track parade. These little body language things arent a great look. He used to slip up with questioned, now he takes the PC middle road, albeit scripted, pretty artificial. AND he gave little acknowlegement to Max, and that was only when asked before he walked away. Ouch. Then it was a polite, short comment.

I have no idea who you're referring to, I can only guess it's the sour puss.

LH off course

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#1553797 16-May-2016 23:16

Amosnz:

tdgeek:

That was an entertaining race.

Mercedes. Both at fault. Rosberg was slow as fixing being on the wrong mode, Lewis committed too soon into a gap. No penalties. Normally the speed differential would have been a lot less, and it wouldn't have happened.

Ricciardo was unlucky. Strategy had his middle stint losing time over 5 or 6 laps. If that was right he could have been at Vettel sooner, and those two would have closed the gap, making it a possible 4 way battle.

Max, well. Super drive. While he didn't do much that was awesome, he was mistake free. At 18, thats magnified.

Lewis didnt want to talk about the accident, whereas Rosberg saw it as his fault, he let that much out.

Rosberg has contract for next year, lewis supposedly doesnt amid rumours he might leave. Sabbatical, no way. Where else? Can only be Ferrari, alongside Vettel.

It was much more entertaining than I was expecting! Lots of good battles for the win when you don't have those 2 cars out in front.

I can't see both Hamilton & Rosberg being at Mercedes next year, too much has gone on between them and I think Merc will look to bring in someone for the future. If Rosberg has a contract for next year then I guess it's him staying (especially if he wins the championship this year), but if not it wouldn't surprise me if his contract was brought out and Hamilton retained.

If Hamilton was to leave Merc I don't think he will go to Ferrari, he will want to be the no1 driver where ever he goes and Ferrari seem happy with Vettel. I cant see either RBR driver changing (now), and I don't think Hamilton would drive a car that's not capable of winning a championship (so not Renault, Hass, Manor, Sauber, McLaren) leaving only Williams, Force India or Toro Rosso. Out of those Williams would be the only outside chance, but I think that's unlikely too.

Personally I see Hamilton as the Floyd Mayweather Jr of F1.

There have been some good races, even when Merc are in front, but with Merc out, the battles are for a win, which makes it a bit more special

I could see them not retain LH, his sourness is overriding his talent. If he wants to go, bye. Maybe. When he won the title last year, Rosberg went on to win the last races, and the first 4 this year. And he took the lead last night, 60/40 that would have led to a win.

Ferrari is the only team, as they can easily drop Kimi next year. Thats it. Ferrari can win a title next year. RBR could, no one else.

Ive seen so much change with those two. Nico, after losing the title unleashed himself from pressure. He started racing to his full potential. Instead of trying to keep with lewis, he races hard now. Being fast, solid and stable, will only ever earn a silver medal. He could have last night, protected a turn 1 or 2 drama, held safe station, then looked to grab Lewis if an opportunity came up. No, he went for it on turn 1, around the outside. He knows to win the title, you have to race hard. Its like he grew up and threw the Hamilton chip on Nico's shoulder away. I'd keep Rosberg any day. Being less emotionally erratic than Lewis, he would make a better team player.

Mercedes Rosberg and Alonso

Ferrari Vettel and Hamilton

RBR Ricciardo and Verstappen

With what I gather are rules to help equalise the cars next year, could be great if the changes made. Looks like being pretty good this year anyhow. RBR is due about 48 bhp in Canada due to getting the fuel ignition innovation finally. I think only Mercedes, Ferrari and Honda have that at the moment.

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#1553932 17-May-2016 09:28

I'm not entirely sure Ferrari would want Hamilton. On one hand he's clearly a good driver, but I don't see him as a family man, which is something they try to promote with their drivers. Vettel seems the future at Ferrari and they typically stack their drivers as one lead and one assistant. Rosberg fits the Mercedes marketing image more than Hamilton.

I was surprised at how un exciting I found this race, after the potential with the top two being out of the equation. It just struck me as how hard it is to pass, and how little the 3s pitstops contribute nowadays.

I remember reading long ago about how you really need to introduce potential points for mistakes. If you do this, then skill comes into play, but if you remove this, then it becomes processional. F1 nowadays has to struggle with the automation component. It's supposed to be the pinnacle of car design etc, and nowadays that means driverless cars with collision avoidance etc. Antilock brakes mean less opportunity to get it wrong in corners, automatic gear shift and clutches mean you can't stall and can't make a mistake in a high pressure situation etc. It's all very safe, and I think they're clutching at straws to make it exciting.

Now there have been some good races so far, but on the whole F1 has been through another one of those periods of domination by one team. Hopefully someone has the foresight and balls to make changes for the good of the sport. I've read suggestions of trying to aim for 5sec a lap faster cars etc, but really I'd prefer to see cars that could follow the car ahead for a slingshot pass etc, rather than having to give up after 3 laps for fear of overheating the engine and tyres, and resort to fuel savings with a hope of another attack blast in the last 5 laps of the race etc.

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#1553954 17-May-2016 09:46

Jaxson:

I'm not entirely sure Ferrari would want Hamilton. On one hand he's clearly a good driver, but I don't see him as a family man, which is something they try to promote with their drivers. Vettel seems the future at Ferrari and they typically stack their drivers as one lead and one assistant. Rosberg fits the Mercedes marketing image more than Hamilton.

I was surprised at how un exciting I found this race, after the potential with the top two being out of the equation. It just struck me as how hard it is to pass, and how little the 3s pitstops contribute nowadays.

I remember reading long ago about how you really need to introduce potential points for mistakes. If you do this, then skill comes into play, but if you remove this, then it becomes processional. F1 nowadays has to struggle with the automation component. It's supposed to be the pinnacle of car design etc, and nowadays that means driverless cars with collision avoidance etc. Antilock brakes mean less opportunity to get it wrong in corners, automatic gear shift and clutches mean you can't stall and can't make a mistake in a high pressure situation etc. It's all very safe, and I think they're clutching at straws to make it exciting.

Now there have been some good races so far, but on the whole F1 has been through another one of those periods of domination by one team. Hopefully someone has the foresight and balls to make changes for the good of the sport. I've read suggestions of trying to aim for 5sec a lap faster cars etc, but really I'd prefer to see cars that could follow the car ahead for a slingshot pass etc, rather than having to give up after 3 laps for fear of overheating the engine and tyres, and resort to fuel savings with a hope of another attack blast in the last 5 laps of the race etc.

They dont have any of those components.

While following is an issue, passing has increased a great deal. Even Catalunya where you cannot really pass had plenty of passing. I think its FAR better than the Schumacher period which was very processional and staged. Reemeber Indy? Rubens lead, backed off at the finish so Michael can grab him, and did. I persoanally feel F1 is in a good and better place now and more to come

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#1553986 17-May-2016 10:27

Not saying they do have them, just an illustration of possible automation points.

Agree there is more passing, just not sure there is as much racing.

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#1553996 17-May-2016 10:41

Jaxson:

Not saying they do have them, just an illustration of possible automation points.

Agree there is more passing, just not sure there is as much racing.

I feel the issue is turn 1 and on some tracks, turn 2. Imagine if Merc or Ferrari saod that they will bypass a race, that would be an uproar, ruining racing. Thats exactly what is happening this year, every race starts with a high level of anticipation, then its diluted after the start. They talked about a mobile start, maybe they should double penalties for a turns 1 and 2 incident? But with RBR getting the new ignition system in Canada and if Ferrari can sort their narrow tyre temp window, and the inter team driver races with Merc and RBR, lots to like. Maybe not at Monaco though

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#1554090 17-May-2016 12:38

Avoiding the rose tinted glasses is always going to be an issue. As you say, there have been extremely processional periods in F1, and spectator wise they don't provide the entertainment of more level technology series, where the battles are exciting. I don think the ability to follow and hound the person in front is extremely important in the spectacle, as well as providing the possibility for things to go wrong.

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#1554124 17-May-2016 13:25

If anything would make it more exciting it would be race start time of 2200 GMT+12

But ALAS, that honour goes to GMT +10, to the Aussies.

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#1554166 17-May-2016 14:54

Here's a clip from YT of Sky Sports F1 post race analysis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWU2DZjDEeM

Hamilton got a good run at Rosberg out of the turn as Rosberg's car went into a harvesting mode (as mentioned earlier). This can be seen by the rain light flashing on Rosberg's car, and he subsequently making adjustment's in the cockpit.

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#1554191 17-May-2016 15:14

tdgeek:

That was an entertaining race.

Mercedes. Both at fault...

I disagree.

Hamilton made this move on a straight piece of track. Rosberg was on the LHS of the track (and still running even wider out of turn 3) when Lewis committed to the RHS

There is no way to abort this move at this point, and Rosberg is still well to the left

Hamilton here is alongside Rosberg with plenty of track to spare.

...we all know what happened next.

That's all fact/evidence based. The following is my opinion:

It is never acceptable to force another driver off the track
It is less acceptable to do so to one's teammate
It is even less acceptable to do so on a straight piece of track
It is even less acceptable still to do so when the rate of closure is so high (because of a mistake you have made)

Rosberg acknowledged that he saw Lewis head to the right, and deliberately shut the door on him. He claims to be surprised that Hamilton persisted with the move and felt that he should have switched to an overtake attempt on the outside.

tdgeek:

Rosberg was slow as fixing being on the wrong mode, ... Normally the speed differential would have been a lot less, and it wouldn't have happened.

This is key. Hamilton wasn't "storming in" here late-breaking, or trying to throw one up the inside of a turn - Hamilton was at normal race pace, it was Rosberg who was out of step with the velocity of the following cars. His mistake, and the resulting speed differential meant that there was no possibility for Hamilton to alter his overtaking trajectory. So Rosberg simply forced him off the track.

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#1554197 17-May-2016 15:26

Its legal to close the door, they are allowed one move. Forget the wording but its a long the lines of a significant portion of the car must be alongside. When lewis got to what could be considered that, he had wheels on the grass. And its known he did apologise to Nico. He was aware of the closing speed, not that obvious to Rosberg. So Lewis and the stewards saw Lewis was partly at fault, also stewards thought Rosberg was partly at fault. As I see it, he was aggrieved and committed too much, with no chance till it was too late to back off, but thats the heat of racing

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#1554233 17-May-2016 15:46

Other aspects though are:

Was Hamilton was alongside before the door was shut?

In pictures shown elsewhere his front wheel was behind the rear wheels of Rosberg when he went off the track. -Only pulling up alongside and pass Rosberg's rear tyres once he was off the track, (which even if he'd managed to rescue that, would have meant he'd have to give the place back anyway)

Could he have nailed the upcoming corner also, with a late breaking manoeuvre.

We've seen this type of crash before though, like when Weber famously flipped when he ran into the back of Heikki Kovalainen back in 2010. If you're going to slow down in front of a bunch of fast moving cars, then you're a sitting duck. These things don't have courtesy brake lights etc.

I am very much on the fence about this. I think Rosberg is entitled to move over once, and Hamilton wouldn't have been there if he'd had a good start. Racing Incident seems a fair call in this instance?

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#1554238 17-May-2016 16:01

Jaxson:

Other aspects though are:

Was Hamilton was alongside before the door was shut?

In pictures shown elsewhere his front wheel was behind the rear wheels of Rosberg when he went off the track. -Only pulling up alongside and pass Rosberg's rear tyres once he was off the track, (which even if he'd managed to rescue that, would have meant he'd have to give the place back anyway)

Could he have nailed the upcoming corner also, with a late breaking manoeuvre.

We've seen this type of crash before though, like when Weber famously flipped when he ran into the back of Heikki Kovalainen back in 2010. If you're going to slow down in front of a bunch of fast moving cars, then you're a sitting duck. These things don't have courtesy brake lights etc.

I am very much on the fence about this. I think Rosberg is entitled to move over once, and Hamilton wouldn't have been there if he'd had a good start. Racing Incident seems a fair call in this instance?

I think so. The stewards report basically said that Rosberg was allowed to move, and Lewis was allowed to make his move, but implied it was within the rules but marginal. The grass caused the spin, it wasnt a run off area that would have held reasonable grip. Thats why some feel Lewis made what they saw as a desperate move. Whether it was, or a great attempt to get past, only he knows

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