Formula 1 2021 Season Discussion

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#2836899 22-Dec-2021 14:45

I still think their needs to be some kind of strategy to level the field. IE ballast. I get tired of hearing, oh it's the pinnacle of motor-sport. But it often forgets the sport part. F1 has been cheque book racing for too long. There is so little incentive for new teams to enter, notwithstanding current VAG negotiations.

Seeing Hamilton scythe through the field in Brazil made me think they could actually do away with qualifying (though to be fair it is now my favourite part of the weekend) and have full reverse grids based on finishing order from the previous race.

They will keep tinkering around the edges and nothing will change.

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#2836904 22-Dec-2021 14:51

Benoire:

But the computers would simply choose the best strategy and they would all do the same pretty much. The only reason why RB and Mercedes could start on the yellow tires is due to their ability to get through Q2 on them, if Ferarri or McLaren could then they would aswell as we'd have 4 teams pretty much on the same strategy. If you read the recent 'The Dude' piece (Mercedes Mechanic), the computers can basically establish pretty much the aero performance, gear ratios, tyre deg, fuel loads etc. of thier competitors and can react within about 2s to the best strategic options avaialble should a VSC or safety car occur. All the teams run similar software, use machine learning to computationally evaluate the data, and present the best strategic outcomes, therefore any bonus' become fairly negligable as they'd all do the same thing, the only time it doesn't work is if a team needs to do something different because the standard approach won't change anything e.g. RB in the last race, in which case they're doing different things knowing it probably won't work but external factors may come in to play.

Ok that does make it tricky! Ok how about the winning driver or team has to start the next race on the tyres they finished the last race on :P

tdgeek

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#2836909 22-Dec-2021 14:56

mudguard:

I still think their needs to be some kind of strategy to level the field. IE ballast. I get tired of hearing, oh it's the pinnacle of motor-sport. But it often forgets the sport part. F1 has been cheque book racing for too long. There is so little incentive for new teams to enter, notwithstanding current VAG negotiations.

Seeing Hamilton scythe through the field in Brazil made me think they could actually do away with qualifying (though to be fair it is now my favourite part of the weekend) and have full reverse grids based on finishing order from the previous race.

They will keep tinkering around the edges and nothing will change.

Didnt they do that in Supercars to even up Ford vs Holden? Not sure Id want that though

Reverse grid would be good

mudguard

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#2836913 22-Dec-2021 15:00

tdgeek:

Didnt they do that in Supercars to even up Ford vs Holden? Not sure Id want that though

Reverse grid would be good

I'm not sure to be honest, I've never followed supercars that closely. I do like homolagation racing though, bit how Bathurst used to be with mixed car classes.

But F1 is a different beast. It was depressing to read that comment about how AI can decide the strategy

tdgeek

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#2836918 22-Dec-2021 15:05

mudguard:

I'm not sure to be honest, I've never followed supercars that closely. I do like homolagation racing though, bit how Bathurst used to be with mixed car classes.

But F1 is a different beast. It was depressing to read that comment about how AI can decide the strategy

Yes its very algorithm based now. Tyres used to fail badly, "fall off the cliff" now they last forever. No gravel. Run off heaven. Sanitised to the max.

Bung

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#2836920 22-Dec-2021 15:08

mudguard:
Seeing Hamilton scythe through the field in Brazil

Did many of the drivers fight him or did they let him through? A mid field car would have to race everyone to get to the front. Trying to slow Hamilton would just allow their real competition to get closer.

insane

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#2836923 22-Dec-2021 15:12

Bung:
mudguard:

Seeing Hamilton scythe through the field in Brazil

Did many of the drivers fight him or did they let him through? A mid field car would have to race everyone to get to the front. Trying to slow Hamilton would just allow their real competition to get closer.

When he's 2s a lap faster there's not much you can do anyway, unless your name is Sergio Perez :)

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Batman

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#2836945 22-Dec-2021 16:01

mudguard:

Seeing Hamilton scythe through the field in Brazil made me think they could actually do away with qualifying (though to be fair it is now my favourite part of the weekend) and have full reverse grids based on finishing order from the previous race.

i think Brazil is an anomaly because he took a new engine and they ran it at 120%.

mudguard

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#2836950 22-Dec-2021 16:07

Bung:
mudguard:

Seeing Hamilton scythe through the field in Brazil

Did many of the drivers fight him or did they let him through? A mid field car would have to race everyone to get to the front. Trying to slow Hamilton would just allow their real competition to get closer.

Maybe, and purely a philosophical question I guess. But he may not have everyone diving out of the way quite so eagerly if it was a regular occurrence.

Guess I can dream. I'm not sure what I want out of F1, the engines have reduced the interest for me a lot. I realise it was unsustainable but to think Toyota and maybe BMW were hitting 20,000 rpms a few years ago. It doesn't even look like spectators need ear protection for the hybrids.

Benoire

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#2836953 22-Dec-2021 16:14

mudguard:

Maybe, and purely a philosophical question I guess. But he may not have everyone diving out of the way quite so eagerly if it was a regular occurrence.

Guess I can dream. I'm not sure what I want out of F1, the engines have reduced the interest for me a lot. I realise it was unsustainable but to think Toyota and maybe BMW were hitting 20,000 rpms a few years ago. It doesn't even look like spectators need ear protection for the hybrids.

But all you heard was noise, nothing else but saturation of noise that could damage your ears... Now you hear other things to, the tyres, the burble of the engine, the hybrid components.. I prefer the noise these makes having listened to plenty of v8s when I was in the UK and watched many a race in the stands across europe.

mudguard

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#2836958 22-Dec-2021 16:19

Benoire:

mudguard:

Maybe, and purely a philosophical question I guess. But he may not have everyone diving out of the way quite so eagerly if it was a regular occurrence.

Guess I can dream. I'm not sure what I want out of F1, the engines have reduced the interest for me a lot. I realise it was unsustainable but to think Toyota and maybe BMW were hitting 20,000 rpms a few years ago. It doesn't even look like spectators need ear protection for the hybrids.

But all you heard was noise, nothing else but saturation of noise that could damage your ears... Now you hear other things to, the tyres, the burble of the engine, the hybrid components.. I prefer the noise these makes having listened to plenty of v8s when I was in the UK and watched many a race in the stands across europe.

To be fair the only ones I heard in anger were the 3.0L V10s at Silverstone in 2000. And some V12s at Hampton Downs. Nothing about the current ones excite me sadly. Too small, too quiet and too complex. But I get it, car companies have to see it's potential, and short of Porsche's magic fuel it will increasingly be electric.

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#2836995 22-Dec-2021 17:34

mudguard:

To be fair the only ones I heard in anger were the 3.0L V10s at Silverstone in 2000. And some V12s at Hampton Downs. Nothing about the current ones excite me sadly. Too small, too quiet and too complex. But I get it, car companies have to see it's potential, and short of Porsche's magic fuel it will increasingly be electric.

the future is still hybrid https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.f1-unveils-new-hybrid-graphic-as-part-of-100-sustainably-fuelled-engine-push.1zUJPvYiaHfsiu041tTOh0.html

F1 has helped Merc in the consumer world. they have a 1.9L engine that puts out over 300kW in the A45 AMG

mudguard

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#2837019 22-Dec-2021 18:05

Batman:

the future is still hybrid https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.f1-unveils-new-hybrid-graphic-as-part-of-100-sustainably-fuelled-engine-push.1zUJPvYiaHfsiu041tTOh0.html

F1 has helped Merc in the consumer world. they have a 1.9L engine that puts out over 300kW in the A45 AMG

That's not really new tech. BMWs F1 engine in the eighties had 1500hp from it's 1.5L inline four. It's simply a matter of boost. Have a look at MotoGP. They are around 290BHP per litre. Now that's astonishing.

So the AMG (obviously a road car) is at 163kW per litre.

MotoGP are 216kW per litre. Which must be close to what F1 was pre hybrid.

Though a 20,000rpm redline probably not terribly useful popping down to the dairy.

Bung

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#2837035 22-Dec-2021 19:03

mudguard:
Though a 20,000rpm redline probably not terribly useful popping down to the dairy.

The Renault engine could use it to rev out a few national anthems especially "God save the Queen".

tdgeek

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#2837038 22-Dec-2021 19:09

Batman:

i think Brazil is an anomaly because he took a new engine and they ran it at 120%.

I think thats part of Mercedes strategy. That Lewis had engine changed 3 times last year overnight for ONE penalty.This year they took a 5 place grid drop for a new engine. So he will start 5th or 6th. Brilliant strategy. And running their engine at higher wear for more speed, brilliant strategy. Who won Constructors again????

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