MH 17 "shot down" all dead

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#1093756 22-Jul-2014 15:40

of course Ukraine wants to milk this, if you know the Buk wants to fry your A$#@ and there is an jumbo jet nearby, go and hide there, i would!

(note i haven't had time to watch the 30 min clip, but will do asap)

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#1093757 22-Jul-2014 15:48

joker97: The carefully worded statement does not in any way recognise the "commander" of Donetsk as sovereign and elected. It was the way to negotiate with whoever needs to be negotiated with. What's wrong with that?

Exactly. The need now is the investigation. After that, the annoyances shall begin and the US is but one country of many with that annoyance

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#1093760 22-Jul-2014 15:54

gzt: I think it's a good effort to achieve some objectives. Return of the bodies, and recovery of the black boxes. It also puts a different light on events of the last few days in that regard.

Agree. Two opposite sides, the separatists and wider Ukraine, no trust. Separatists held their ground, now are handing over. No choice really, but sooner is better PR. on PR it seems the handover was with great aplomb, long speeches from seperstists. Surface appeasement but who cares, all we care about are the families bodies, and starting the crash investigation.

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#1093768 22-Jul-2014 16:00

turnin: Well, now it gets very interesting,

Are they saying a Ukrainian anti aircraft missile shot it down? Or that the seperstists fired at the Ukrainian fighter aircraft ?

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#1093772 22-Jul-2014 16:07

tdgeek:
turnin: Well, now it gets very interesting,

Are they saying a Ukrainian anti aircraft missile shot it down? Or that the seperstists fired at the Ukrainian fighter aircraft ?

They are leaving a lot of options open for many different claims:

I did not watch the 30 minute clip either.

Text version: http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

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#1093773 22-Jul-2014 16:15

gzt:
tdgeek:
turnin: Well, now it gets very interesting,

Are they saying a Ukrainian anti aircraft missile shot it down? Or that the seperstists fired at the Ukrainian fighter aircraft ?

They are leaving a lot of options open for many different claims:

I did not watch the 30 minute clip either. Text version: http://rt.com/news/174412-malaysia-plane-russia-ukraine/

Tks for that. Ukraine say they had no SU25 in the air. As our esteemed MF said, the first casualty is the truth. I'd assume other countries can check that? Even then if it was the US, a bias exists. Somewhere in this mess, truth is being told, but by who.

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#1093776 22-Jul-2014 16:20

They are telling porky's about the SU-25, it's a ground support aircraft and has a ceiling 5,000 meters armed not the 10,000 they are claiming. It has a max speed of 950K/PH. My understanding is the Malaysian aircraft was at 33,000 ft and probably cruising at about 900K/PH

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1093777 22-Jul-2014 16:22

when two parties make completely opposing claims, the truth is somewhere in between, (could be anywhere in between)

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#1093779 22-Jul-2014 16:23

KiwiNZ: They are telling porky's about the SU-25, it's a ground support aircraft and has a ceiling 5,000 meters armed not the 10,000 they are claiming. It has a max speed of 950K/PH. My understanding is the Malaysian aircraft was at 33,000 ft and probably cruising at about 900K/PH

Well spotted! I didn't watch all the video, it seemed MH17 deviated.. The FDR will show that. , or not show that. If you are correct, that's a major flaw in the utter rings of the seperatists/Russians.

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#1093780 22-Jul-2014 16:24

joker97: when two parties make completely opposing claims, the truth is somewhere in between, (could be anywhere in between)

With RT it could be written by their fiction writers

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1093782 22-Jul-2014 16:28

When Putin said, it the fault of Ukraine for starting the war, that implies to me, we did it, but they started the war that allowed this scenario to occur.

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#1093783 22-Jul-2014 16:28

When Putin said, it the fault of Ukraine for starting the war, that implies to me, we did it, but they started the war that allowed this scenario to occur.

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#1093788 22-Jul-2014 16:36

KiwiNZ: They are telling porky's about the SU-25, it's a ground support aircraft and has a ceiling 5,000 meters armed not the 10,000 they are claiming. It has a max speed of 950K/PH. My understanding is the Malaysian aircraft was at 33,000 ft and probably cruising at about 900K/PH

It seems to me they are making a number of claims about the surrounding events but are not making any conclusions. For instance they say the SU-25 was climbing (miles away) but do not claim or conclude that it reached MH17 location or altitude or if it was carrying armaments. American aircraft info sites I looked at put the SU-25 ceiling at 7000 meters, a Russian site puts the SU-25 ceiling at 7-10,000 meters.

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#1093792 22-Jul-2014 16:45

tdgeek: When Putin said, it the fault of Ukraine for starting the war, that implies to me, we did it, but they started the war that allowed this scenario to occur.

If you are talking about the annexation of crimea, where the people were given a referndum, as " starting the war" what do you think Putin should have done about his massive military base in Crimea? Should he have just given it up to the US/UN ? Thats about as likely as the Us giving up one of their bases to Russia.
You have to ignore a lot of pretext to avoid the fact that the west's meddling was what started the war. 5 Billion buys a lot of cookies.

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#1093793 22-Jul-2014 16:49

turnin:
tdgeek: When Putin said, it the fault of Ukraine for starting the war, that implies to me, we did it, but they started the war that allowed this scenario to occur.

If you are talking about the annexation of crimea, where the people were given a referndum, as " starting the war" what do you think Putin should have done about his massive military base in Crimea? Should he have just given it up to the US/UN ? Thats about as likely as the Us giving up one of their bases to Russia.
You have to ignore a lot of pretext to avoid the fact that the west's meddling was what started the war. 5 Billion buys a lot of cookies.

Ok I'm not literate on Crimea, but Ukraine is Ukraine, who started that war, which is what Putin was referring to

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