787 Issues

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networkn

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#233470 17-Apr-2018 15:42

So apparently, now 787's with specific engines are no longer allowed to fly more than 140 minutes from a diversionary airport from the 330KM previously allowed. This pretty much rules out all international flights from NZ on the 10 787's that AirNZ has.

Wondering what they are flying on the route AKL to HNL going forward until the issue is resolved?

I'd imagine this pretty much grounds all 787's for Air NZ.

Interestingly, Hawaiin Airlines also fly 787's this route. I haven't seen any advice on whether they are affected.

It seems like a long list of issues for this plane type. I have flown on them 3 times so far, all pleasant enough experiences, but as a nervous flyer at the best of times, I must admit my faith and therefore willingness to get on a 787 is being somewhat reduced.

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#1997921 17-Apr-2018 15:42

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#1997928 17-Apr-2018 15:48

I think @sbiddle has some information... Interesting things happening.

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#1997934 17-Apr-2018 16:02

I believe it's actually 140 minutes from a diversionary airport, not 140km.

So, they will be fine to fly trans-tasman but not to the Americas. I'm not sure about Hawaii or Asia?

networkn

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#1997954 17-Apr-2018 16:09

alasta:

I believe it's actually 140 minutes from a diversionary airport, not 140km.

So, they will be fine to fly trans-tasman but not to the Americas. I'm not sure about Hawaii or Asia?

You are correct, 140 minutes, so that would JUST get them across the ditch, to Fiji and Pacific Islands. I don't think that gets them to Hawaii which is 9 hours on a good day and 11 on a bad.

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#1997956 17-Apr-2018 16:18

I wonder how easy it would be to replace the Rolls Royce Tent 1000 engines with GEnx engines?

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#1997957 17-Apr-2018 16:20

networkn:

So apparently, now 787's with specific engines are no longer allowed to fly more than 140KM from a diversionary airport from the 330KM previously allowed. This pretty much rules out all international flights from NZ on the 10 787's that AirNZ has.

Wondering what they are flying on the route AKL to HNL going forward until the issue is resolved?

I'd imagine this pretty much grounds all 787's for Air NZ.

Interestingly, Hawaiin Airlines also fly 787's this route. I haven't seen any advice on whether they are affected.

It seems like a long list of issues for this plane type. I have flown on them 3 times so far, all pleasant enough experiences, but as a nervous flyer at the best of times, I must admit my faith and therefore willingness to get on a 787 is being somewhat reduced.

Hawaiian uses A330's, they have ordered 787's to replace the A330's. I must say I love the flight experience of the 787, but the old Airforce engineer in me still subscribes to more engines = better. There have already been two failures on the AirNZ RR engines and in an emergency situation the remaining engine runs at full power which significantly increases the risk of a dual failure (then glide or die). I've got some flights coming up that I'm specifically avoiding the AirNZ 787 service for both disruption and risk reasons.

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#1997958 17-Apr-2018 16:20

djtOtago:

I wonder how easy it would be to replace the Rolls Royce Tent 1000 engines with GEnx engines?

Not easy at all

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#1997962 17-Apr-2018 16:23

Sounds like a lot of trouble. How about AirNZ getting some of these?!

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#1997965 17-Apr-2018 16:27

networkn:

So apparently, now 787's with specific engines are no longer allowed to fly more than 140 minutes from a diversionary airport from the 330KM previously allowed. This pretty much rules out all international flights from NZ on the 10 787's that AirNZ has.

Wondering what they are flying on the route AKL to HNL going forward until the issue is resolved?

I'd imagine this pretty much grounds all 787's for Air NZ.

Interestingly, Hawaiin Airlines also fly 787's this route. I haven't seen any advice on whether they are affected.

It seems like a long list of issues for this plane type. I have flown on them 3 times so far, all pleasant enough experiences, but as a nervous flyer at the best of times, I must admit my faith and therefore willingness to get on a 787 is being somewhat reduced.

EDTO (formally ETOPS) works on specified range circles. These range circles are approved by regulators based on speeds that an aircraft will fly in the event of specified issues (there are a bunch). The aircraft must be a planned to be a specified number of minutes from a suitable EDTO airport before flight. 120 min EDTO is probably around 800 nautical miles. This gives around 1600 nm between suitable airports. You could get all the way to Europe if you went West from New Zealand with 120 min EDTO.

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#1997967 17-Apr-2018 16:31

ETOPS = Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim

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#1997968 17-Apr-2018 16:31

jarledb:

Sounds like a lot of trouble. How about AirNZ getting some of these?!

No airline wants those, Emirates is the only one reluctantly keeping the production alive. The first ones are already being mothballed.

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#1997971 17-Apr-2018 16:37

Ahhh we were wondering why the national service to CHC was putting 787s on.. thats our answer.

Only $40 to upgrade to Business class too. Originally we thought it was due to the upskilling of the pilots from ex Eagle/ATR that were closing on regionals.

networkn

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#1997976 17-Apr-2018 16:43

jarledb:

Sounds like a lot of trouble. How about AirNZ getting some of these?!

I don't think the A380 is in AirNZ's future. I have been underwhelmed by them on the flights I have taken. Maybe it's because I have flown economy on "budget" airlines like Luthansa with crappy entertainment systems and small uncomfortable seats. Flights are comfortable enough they are like flying on a big pillow a little. Added pressure is nice too. Bigger windows. Keen to try an A350 at some stage. I think the 777-300 SIA planes are my favourite.

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#1997977 17-Apr-2018 16:45

Is this something new? The only references I found all dated back to Dec 2017.

As far as feeling less safe on a 787... the whole point of the 140 minute limit is to limit the risk to about the same as flying 330 minutes away from an alternate in some other aircraft, or in the same aircraft with different engines.

And its 140 minutes from an alternate, so you can fly legs of 280 minutes (4+hours = 3600km) even if there are no suitable intermediate airfields. So trans-Tasman is no stretch at all. If you could use Johnston Atoll and a couple of other islands as alternates, then Hawaii is possible too.

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#1997980 17-Apr-2018 16:54

frankv:

Is this something new? The only references I found all dated back to Dec 2017.

As far as feeling less safe on a 787... the whole point of the 140 minute limit is to limit the risk to about the same as flying 330 minutes away from an alternate in some other aircraft, or in the same aircraft with different engines.

And its 140 minutes from an alternate, so you can fly legs of 280 minutes (4+hours = 3600km) even if there are no suitable intermediate airfields. So trans-Tasman is no stretch at all. If you could use Johnston Atoll and a couple of other islands as alternates, then Hawaii is possible too.

FAA ETOPS is, engine issues were not. That is why there are 2 white A340s on lease out of AKL to syd and the likes to free up the not-yet-maint-needed ones while 2(3?) 787s were out of action

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