Moment of Truth?

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#1129812 16-Sep-2014 12:24

BarTender:
The problem with your argument is people choose to give their information to Google/MS et al.

With the government / NSA / GSCB. You firstly have / had no knowledge if you are handing over the information and secondly there is no way you can choose not to use the GCSB/NSA.

So to compare a private company you have chosen to use vs a government collecting all the metadata beggars belief IMHO.

I'm not sure people to choose to give their information to Google/MS as you suggest. In many cases they don't even know it's happening.

On a very superficial level just look at what ads get served up on your browser when you do a Google search or for that matter what results you get from a Google search. They're based on your previous browsing history. The same Google search done on separate computers most often throws up different results purely due to the differing browsing tastes of each computer owner. What other intelligence is the likes of Google collecting?

Then there's the in App stuff on mobile devices that goes on unnoticed in the background often without your permission or knowledge where various apps track your movements etc.

At least with the government et al we all know they have been gathering intelligence for ever, why should that be any different know. I see no surprises there.

One thing that I haven't seen being discussed is the fact there is a massive mountain of data involved and it must take a massive amount of resource to analyse this data. Do they have the resources to look at it all? I suspect they don't. Therefore they will be only looking for high profile stuff. Anything else will slide under the radar.

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#1129813 16-Sep-2014 12:25

Ignoring for a minute the whole the subject matter, what annoys me the most is our election result could well be decided by people that have zero interest in this country, it's people, it's welfare, it's future. They will do a lot of damage and move on when they are bored with their play thing.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1129817 16-Sep-2014 12:31

Demeter: You know, besides all the other stuff in this thread I really don't care to get into, CAN WE STOP WITH THE FAT SHAMING PLEASE?

To be fair he makes a feature of it. Not many other people would make themselves into a lighting display, even if they were large enough to be able to manage it.

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#1129819 16-Sep-2014 12:32

KiwiNZ: Ignoring for a minute the whole the subject matter, what annoys me the most is our election result could well be decided by people that have zero interest in this country, it's people, it's welfare, it's future. They will do a lot of damage and move on when they are bored with their play thing.

I agree, however I am hopeful after last nights circus (that's probably insulting to a proper circus) most people will see through KDC's antics and will vote to ensure he isn't successful. I think last night will have reduced the Internet Mana parties chances of having any representation in parliament.

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Technofreak

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#1129823 16-Sep-2014 12:34

Demeter: You know, besides all the other stuff in this thread I really don't care to get into, CAN WE STOP WITH THE FAT SHAMING PLEASE?

Thanks.

You've lost me with that comment.

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#1129824 16-Sep-2014 12:34

turnin:

I do have something to hide, I have a business and I communicate with my clients and we discuss ideas, business ideas, ideas that we don't want to end up in the hands of other people, especially competing companies.
Is that Ok ? Or should I shut my business down ?
I didn't know that dealing with another business meant I was doing something wrong.
I'm staggered to hear that viewpoint from someone who works where you do, where there are thousands of businesses that pay your salary.

If you don't encrypt your communication with your clients, then anyone can read them. They're passing across the Internet in clear text.

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#1129827 16-Sep-2014 12:37

Technofreak:
Demeter: You know, besides all the other stuff in this thread I really don't care to get into, CAN WE STOP WITH THE FAT SHAMING PLEASE?

Thanks.

You've lost me with that comment.

I went back through the thread. Someone said "large German" and someone else said that "KDC has eaten everything else".

That would be "dicke Deutsch" in his own tongue :-)

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#1129853 16-Sep-2014 12:47

Glassboy: People don't choose, they just don't think about it.

Personally I think your position and arguments are the height of dishonesty and if you were a decent person you'd come out and tell us which Political Party you're a shill for.

I can say it as many times as you want.... but you are choosing to ignore it. I AM NOT A POLITICAL PARTY SHILL FOR ANY PARTY.

I happen to feel rather passionately about the sad direction our country is going in. Economically, socially and in regards to mass-surveillance.

I keep on raising questions about how this country has been going, and you prefer to attack me than my points. Who's the shill then? Which political party do you represent. Since it's common for right wing folks to want to out individuals as a form of subversion to keep people quiet. Plenty documented on those sorts of behaviors already. What's your end-goal here? To DOX me and then get me fired from my job so I can't complain anymore?

An interesting AMA on NBR just now from Paul Buchanan who I would have said would be staunchly behind the government and what they have been up to. However found it a balanced response to yesterday: http://www.nbr.co.nz/ask-paul-buchanan-2

Edit: Just noticed you had one extra reply:

Glassboy:
Talkiet:
Glassboy: ...and if you were a decent person you'd come out and tell us which Political Party you're a shill for.

It's possible to have opinions about political issues, and even speak strongly about those opinions without being a shill for a particular political party.

Of course it is, and if I thought [s]he was being honest I would accept that it was just personal opinion.

Really??? Que Tui Billboard time.

Would still like to know which Political Party you represent. I wonder if you are a WO blogger shill?? Pure conjecture here but you seem to rather like attacking individuals rather than the arguments which is a very similar WO style Modus Operandi .... so if the shoe fits eh?

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#1129858 16-Sep-2014 12:50

frankv:
Item:
johnr:

I don't care if they see what I do online I have nothing to hide so have nothing to worry about

The whole "nothing to hide, nothing to worry about" retort misses the point so spectacularly...

I agree...

Let's assume that for some reason you are viewed by the Govt (or the GCSB or the FBI or the US Govt or the RIAA or Judith Collins or Cameron Slater) as a risk. Perhaps you're (openly... nothing to hide) a communist, or a Muslim who agrees with al Qaeda's principles, or a credible opponent of fracking, or claim to be John Key's homosexual lover, or a lawyer defending a politically unpopular client, a Trade Unionist, a boy racer/car enthusiast, Maori separatist, an anti-copyright activist, or any of a hundred different things.

Providing information to the Govt on (say) the state of your business, personal finances, personal life, or anything else provides them (and their friends/allies) with the power to effectively silence you.

If this were the case then it is not wholesale spying, it is targeted. The claim was about wholesale spying wasn't it?

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#1129859 16-Sep-2014 12:51

KiwiNZ: Ignoring for a minute the whole the subject matter, what annoys me the most is our election result could well be decided by people that have zero interest in this country, it's people, it's welfare, it's future. They will do a lot of damage and move on when they are bored with their play thing.

Actually, I think that (a) our election result is becoming increasingly irrelevant. The people we elect have little power compared to the big corporates. They will move on when they have milked us dry.

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#1129870 16-Sep-2014 13:01

frankv:
KiwiNZ: Ignoring for a minute the whole the subject matter, what annoys me the most is our election result could well be decided by people that have zero interest in this country, it's people, it's welfare, it's future. They will do a lot of damage and move on when they are bored with their play thing.

Actually, I think that (a) our election result is becoming increasingly irrelevant. The people we elect have little power compared to the big corporates. They will move on when they have milked us dry.

Say what now

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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DravidDavid

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#1129896 16-Sep-2014 13:17

KiwiNZ:
frankv:
KiwiNZ: Ignoring for a minute the whole the subject matter, what annoys me the most is our election result could well be decided by people that have zero interest in this country, it's people, it's welfare, it's future. They will do a lot of damage and move on when they are bored with their play thing.

Actually, I think that (a) our election result is becoming increasingly irrelevant. The people we elect have little power compared to the big corporates. They will move on when they have milked us dry.

Say what now

Government will sign, seal and deliver whatever policy is placed on their table by foreign bullies if the cheque has enough zeros on the end. It's no surprise that the United States is a great example of this very practice.

ajobbins

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#1129898 16-Sep-2014 13:22

Technofreak:
I agree, however I am hopeful after last nights circus (that's probably insulting to a proper circus) most people will see through KDC's antics and will vote to ensure he isn't successful. I think last night will have reduced the Internet Mana parties chances of having any representation in parliament.

I am hopeful after last night most people will see through KDC's antics and examine the other claims that were made with proper scrutiny.

KDC aside, there were very serious claims made by well respected, internationally recognised people with a proven track record of being right (And, probably more importantly, a track record of not being wrong).

It's just a shame that KDC himself has detracted from these revelations. While KDC clearly has his own motives and agenda, that does not mean that any revelations that he has managed to produce are automatically invalid, as many people seem to be asserting. Take him out of the equation and think critically rather than writing all this (Same with Dirty Politics) off on technicalities.

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#1129906 16-Sep-2014 13:29

ajobbins:
Technofreak:
I agree, however I am hopeful after last nights circus (that's probably insulting to a proper circus) most people will see through KDC's antics and will vote to ensure he isn't successful. I think last night will have reduced the Internet Mana parties chances of having any representation in parliament.

I am hopeful after last night most people will see through KDC's antics and examine the other claims that were made with proper scrutiny.

KDC aside, there were very serious claims made by well respected, internationally recognised people with a proven track record of being right (And, probably more importantly, a track record of not being wrong).

It's just a shame that KDC himself has detracted from these revelations. While KDC clearly has his own motives and agenda, that does not mean that any revelations that he has managed to produce are automatically invalid, as many people seem to be asserting. Take him out of the equation and think critically rather than writing all this (Same with Dirty Politics) off on technicalities.

Internationally recognised felons and/or fugitives in number of cases...

MikeB4

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#1129908 16-Sep-2014 13:31

DravidDavid:
KiwiNZ:
frankv:
KiwiNZ: Ignoring for a minute the whole the subject matter, what annoys me the most is our election result could well be decided by people that have zero interest in this country, it's people, it's welfare, it's future. They will do a lot of damage and move on when they are bored with their play thing.

Actually, I think that (a) our election result is becoming increasingly irrelevant. The people we elect have little power compared to the big corporates. They will move on when they have milked us dry.

Say what now

Government will sign, seal and deliver whatever policy is placed on their table by foreign bullies if the cheque has enough zeros on the end. It's no surprise that the United States is a great example of this very practice.

examples?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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