Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3221987 24-Apr-2024 06:29

Ge0rge:
freitasm:

"Tough on crime" is bullshit.

Public service job cuts: What ministries are proposing | Stuff

I would be interested to know how many people are actually going to lose their job, vs how many funded positions that are not filled, for wherever reason, are being removed. I haven't seen that asked anywhere.

The Ministries often state vacant positions that will be disestablished. While budgeted for, currently they are not a cost to the Govt, and after disestablishment, not a gain for the Govt

Ge0rge

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#3221988 24-Apr-2024 06:33

So you're saying that, as the link quoted doesn't say "vacant positions", that every one of the jobs being cut has a human in it, about to be unemployed?

tdgeek

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#3221989 24-Apr-2024 06:44

Ge0rge: So you're saying that, as the link quoted doesn't say "vacant positions", that every one of the jobs being cut has a human in it, about to be unemployed?

Crown Law in the link stated some vacant positions. Articles I have read often show we are cutting x roles but of them x are vacant at the moment. To me that means the budgeted salaries will benefit from vacant roles being disestablished, but week to week, no savings as there is no costs to save

sir1963

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#3221990 24-Apr-2024 06:58

Handle9: So what you’re saying is there is no way to determine if the program is effective for 25 years. It’s nonsensical.

No I am saying the current period is too short for any meaningful stats, bu the FULL benefits won't be known for that long

What we DO know now is all the developmental benefits.

But the questions that needs to be asked are:
What is a better alternative ?
Does this government know , do they have any information, facts, etc ?
Have they any plan to instigate a better alternative ?

OR, is this just a cut for cuts sake and any benefits will never be enough to stop the cut.

tdgeek

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#3222061 24-Apr-2024 08:51

sir1963:

OR, is this just a cut for cuts sake and any benefits will never be enough to stop the cut.

It is, to fund the massive tax cuts the citizens will each receive that will help us greatly in the inflation crisis... /S

sir1963

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#3222063 24-Apr-2024 08:54

tdgeek:

sir1963:

OR, is this just a cut for cuts sake and any benefits will never be enough to stop the cut.

It is, to fund the massive tax cuts the citizens will each receive that will help us greatly in the inflation crisis... /S

The freeing up of mortgage lending will help /s

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#3222091 24-Apr-2024 09:26

Handle9:

I never claimed this government had an evidence based approach. If you read what was posted I made this point with regards to prison sentences.

That's a fair point, but my position is that feeding kids doesn't need any further justification.

No matter what we may think about the suitability of the adults concerned to have ever been parents in the first place, it isn't the kids fault. Maybe it doesn't increase attendance (though common sense suggests that it should, especially if it's the only meal you're going to get all day), but again, I think "feeding kids" is enough, full stop.

I'm perfectly happy for my tax dollars to go towards accidentally feeding a kid who "doesn't deserve it" when they also definitely will go towards feeding some who do. I also have to accept that a much larger portion of my tax dollars are going towards a range of measures that are proven not to work, like boot camps and building more roads, so I think that we can let this one slide.

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ezbee

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#3222097 24-Apr-2024 09:45

If Luxon says we should be doing what Estonia does.

Free lunches, brain breaks and happy teachers: why Estonia has the best schools in Europe
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/mar/27/free-lunches-brain-breaks-and-happy-teachers-why-estonia-has-the-best-schools-in-europe

""
How did a small, relatively poor country become an educational powerhouse? Creativity, autonomy and a deep embrace of the digital age
""

He would have to navigate the paywall though :-)
Apparently all primary and secondary school children in Estonia have been receiving free school meals since 2002.

Free or heavily subsidized meals (with options for free for low income) at schools are common around the world.

As an advanced economy looking to be leading amongst knowledge economies around the world?
That is a major producer and exporter of 'food'.

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#3222100 24-Apr-2024 09:58

SaltyNZ:

Handle9:

I never claimed this government had an evidence based approach. If you read what was posted I made this point with regards to prison sentences.

That's a fair point, but my position is that feeding kids doesn't need any further justification.

No matter what we may think about the suitability of the adults concerned to have ever been parents in the first place, it isn't the kids fault. Maybe it doesn't increase attendance (though common sense suggests that it should, especially if it's the only meal you're going to get all day), but again, I think "feeding kids" is enough, full stop.

I'm perfectly happy for my tax dollars to go towards accidentally feeding a kid who "doesn't deserve it" when they also definitely will go towards feeding some who do. I also have to accept that a much larger portion of my tax dollars are going towards a range of measures that are proven not to work, like boot camps and building more roads, so I think that we can let this one slide.

How can I praise this enough? Thank you for saying it so much better than I have!

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freitasm

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#3222119 24-Apr-2024 10:57

Ge0rge:
freitasm:
"Tough on crime" is bullshit.

Public service job cuts: What ministries are proposing | Stuff

I would be interested to know how many people are actually going to lose their job, vs how many funded positions that are not filled, for wherever reason, are being removed. I haven't seen that asked anywhere.

Perhaps the positions are no different but they haven't found a suitable candidate. In any case, filling the position would benefit crime fighting, so reducing the numbers is not a positive outcome but is cementing the overstretch of the people left in those teams.

quickymart

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#3222300 24-Apr-2024 13:38

Melissa Lee is removed from the Broadcasting/Media portfolio:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/prime-minister-christopher-luxons-surprise-reshuffle-melissa-lee-demoted-paul-goldsmith-takes-broadcasting-portfolio/CHSDN7UDKJEWJHDOCSU26GWX4E/

Paul Goldsmith to take over. Hopefully he proves to be more competent in the role than she was.

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#3222312 24-Apr-2024 13:59

quickymart:

Melissa Lee is removed from the Broadcasting/Media portfolio:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/prime-minister-christopher-luxons-surprise-reshuffle-melissa-lee-demoted-paul-goldsmith-takes-broadcasting-portfolio/CHSDN7UDKJEWJHDOCSU26GWX4E/

Paul Goldsmith to take over. Hopefully he proves to be more competent in the role than she was.

So, when Luxon was asked if he was considering removing her and he said "Not at this point," he accidentally told the truth...

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Handle9

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#3222348 24-Apr-2024 14:46

SaltyNZ:

Handle9:

I never claimed this government had an evidence based approach. If you read what was posted I made this point with regards to prison sentences.

That's a fair point, but my position is that feeding kids doesn't need any further justification.

No matter what we may think about the suitability of the adults concerned to have ever been parents in the first place, it isn't the kids fault. Maybe it doesn't increase attendance (though common sense suggests that it should, especially if it's the only meal you're going to get all day), but again, I think "feeding kids" is enough, full stop.

I'm perfectly happy for my tax dollars to go towards accidentally feeding a kid who "doesn't deserve it" when they also definitely will go towards feeding some who do. I also have to accept that a much larger portion of my tax dollars are going towards a range of measures that are proven not to work, like boot camps and building more roads, so I think that we can let this one slide.

I understand the perspective and I don't care about the emotional claptrap about the parents. The point is that public spending is about spending money on either one thing or the other. In the education space this means that if money goes to school lunches a range other initiatives don't happen. The treasury report recommended diverting the funding to other education iniatives. They won't happen now.

When you take a similar approach across a range of government policies then you end up with these same sacred cows that can't be touched and a whole range of other worthy initiatives not funded.

They included supporting education providers that were under pressure due to rising costs, targeted support for Māori and Pacific learners, and learning support for the most vulnerable learners and those at risk of falling behind

thinkingtrex8848

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#3222375 24-Apr-2024 15:24

Surprised Luxon swung the axe and removed portfolios from ministers and removed Melissa Lee from cabinet altogether.. Pleasantly surprised though.

deepred

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#3222383 24-Apr-2024 15:37

tdgeek:

deepred:

ICYMI, a recent Ipsos survey compared rising populism in NZ with other nations. Further analysis follows, may or may not be hyperbole:

Marc Daalder: New Zealand’s crisis of confidence
Bryce Edwards: Serious populist discontent is bubbling up in New Zealand

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

Pretty much. And all of these mass staff cuts, service cuts, even the oft mentioned school lunches cuts, what do we get for all this?

Low to medium income earners get a tiny tiny gain. Thats no help

Upper medium to high earners get a bigger gain, although thats essentially chump change.

The winners are those with kids, and Im all for that, would have been better to give the lower/medium singles more, the families more, and dont bother with the rest who dont need it

In a tight labour market I wonder how many will get onto a benefit once the payout stand down period is over? Still win for the Govt though, "assuming" they factored that in

I suspect that tradies who install razor wire, bulletproof glass, and AI surveillance equipment will be making a killing from the next 3 budgets.

"I regret to say that we of the F.B.I. are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce." — J. Edgar Hoover

"Create a society that values material things above all else. Strip it of industry. Raise taxes for the poor and reduce them for the rich and for corporations. Prop up failed financial institutions with public money. Ask for more tax, while vastly reducing public services. Put adverts everywhere, regardless of people's ability to afford the things they advertise. Allow the cost of food and housing to eclipse people's ability to pay for them. Light blue touch paper." — Andrew Maxwell

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