Our PM Jacinda Ardern (and the government)

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#3024001 19-Jan-2023 14:57

GV27:

I am far more interested in her opinions of where the country is heading on a non-partisan basis .

We don't seem to do non partisan here. If she did that and gave a truthful and honest answer, it will be criticised. I guess that's politics, but its harder for lay people to get a handle on stuff, when all the commentary is A criticies B and B criticises A . Its essentially a psychology game

Rikkitic

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#3024002 19-Jan-2023 14:57

networkn:

I can see more of the usual deflecting rather than actually discussing the actual points.

Please show the evidence to support your claims, rather than just making them.

This is much more fun.

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networkn

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#3024004 19-Jan-2023 14:59

Rikkitic:

It would just get sabotaged by all the reactionaries who can't stand the thought of anything good coming from the left.

I have said this all along. There was pretty much only one policy Labour offered up I felt was 'good' and that was rail to the airport, which is now likely not happening and if it is will not be what is needed. Most of their policies were fantasy or poorly thought out and even more badly executed. Let me know which ones you think they planned and executed well). Regardless of that, had they of actually executed those policies (even a reasonable number of them) and they had the predicted (by them) outcomes then you'd begrudgingly at least admit they were moving in a particular direction.

Do you honestly feel NZ is better off now than 5 years ago?

marmel

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#3024008 19-Jan-2023 15:02

Rikkitic:

marmel: If you want a thread where everyone turns a blind eye to actual outcomes and pretends Labour are awesome start a Jacinda Adern appreciation thread.

It would just get sabotaged by all the reactionaries who can't stand the thought of anything good coming from the left.

I think you will find many who post on here will be posting similar criticisms on any 'National' party thread, should they become government in October and deliver similar results. Personally, I'm a swing voter and have been for 20+ years. I go with whomever I think has the best policies and the best chance of actually moving the country forward. It appears that you are just a Jacinda fan regardless and that's fine but the harsh reality is, Labour have not achieved bugger all, it's great to smile at the camera and be well liked on US chat shows but as someone else has pointed out those people don't live here. I don't think she has been a bad PM and I allow some credit for the major issues caused by COVID but Labour has still been fairly hopeless and she was the leader, the warning signs were there well before COVID times with massive spending on consultants and working parties etc in their first couple of years, kind of suggested the Labour MP's didn't really know what they were doing and didn't have the confidence to do anything without spending a few million on an 'expert' to tell them it was a good idea and I think that has played out through their 2nd term as well.

GV27

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#3024009 19-Jan-2023 15:03

networkn:

Most of their policies were fantasy or poorly thought out and even more badly executed. Let me know which ones you think they planned and executed well).

I'll bite. They increased the funding and scope for the CRL and network to allow for nine-car trains from the out and also adding the badly needed entrance at the K Road station that had been deferred as a cost-saving measure.

I can't think of much else I 100% agreed with but it was a remarkably smart bit of policy that was then followed by years of abject failure and garbage when it came to Auckland transport decisions, in a country notorious for leaving bits of things off to get something done cheaply and then regretting it for for decades afterwards.

Rikkitic

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#3024010 19-Jan-2023 15:03

Technofreak: Yes, there was a fair degree of admiring coverage in the international press but also some less flattering coverage as well, one example being the Spitting Image skit.

It is interesting that you zero in on Spitting Images to make a point. This is a parody show that goes out of its way to use extreme caricature to make its targets look as ridiculous as possible. The fact that they chose Ardern is actually a compliment. The fact that you use this as an example of international attitudes about her is just stupid.

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GV27

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#3024011 19-Jan-2023 15:04

networkn:

Do you honestly feel NZ is better off now than 5 years ago?

I wanted to answer this separately, but the answer is 'no'. I genuinely think Bill English's maturing social investment policy would have been better for the people who needed it than promised and then permanently stalled welfare reform.

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Rikkitic

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#3024012 19-Jan-2023 15:06

networkn:

Rikkitic:

It would just get sabotaged by all the reactionaries who can't stand the thought of anything good coming from the left.

I have said this all along. There was pretty much only one policy Labour offered up I felt was 'good' and that was rail to the airport, which is now likely not happening and if it is will not be what is needed. Most of their policies were fantasy or poorly thought out and even more badly executed. Let me know which ones you think they planned and executed well). Regardless of that, had they of actually executed those policies (even a reasonable number of them) and they had the predicted (by them) outcomes then you'd begrudgingly at least admit they were moving in a particular direction.

Do you honestly feel NZ is better off now than 5 years ago?

Five years ago we didn't have Covid and war in Ukraine and the economic repercussions of all that. But of course, blame it on Jacinda Ardern.

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#3024015 19-Jan-2023 15:11

marmel:

Personally, I'm a swing voter and have been for 20+ years. I go with whomever I think has the best policies and the best chance of actually moving the country forward.

That's exactly me, as Ive stated in the past, although I doubt I am perceived that way. Its a pity that Covid and Ukraine etc hit, so we could see how they bedded in without any headwinds and the corresponding economic fallouts. NZ had many many issues prior to 2017, and well before, when every party had a turn. No matter who was in, we still will have them, hopefully some improved over time

End of two terms, lets start afresh. Two sets of tangible policies, lets see how they look in Sept/Oct

networkn

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#3024018 19-Jan-2023 15:21

Rikkitic:

Five years ago we didn't have Covid and war in Ukraine and the economic repercussions of all that. But of course, blame it on Jacinda Ardern.

I didn't blame it all on her.

marmel

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#3024019 19-Jan-2023 15:26

GV27:

networkn:

Most of their policies were fantasy or poorly thought out and even more badly executed. Let me know which ones you think they planned and executed well).

I'll bite. They increased the funding and scope for the CRL and network to allow for nine-car trains from the out and also adding the badly needed entrance at the K Road station that had been deferred as a cost-saving measure.

I can't think of much else I 100% agreed with but it was a remarkably smart bit of policy that was then followed by years of abject failure and garbage when it came to Auckland transport decisions, in a country notorious for leaving bits of things off to get something done cheaply and then regretting it for for decades afterwards.

Speaking of bits left off Andrew Little signing off on the new Dunedin public hospital 'downsizing' is a classic example. Despite clear evidence it will be too small in the near future he is just ignoring that to save $170m. This from the government that actually had the audacity to announce a pay freeze on the public sector due to 'hard times' and then 3 weeks later announce they were going to spend about $800m on a cycle bridge over the harbour.

We had an almost identical issue in the midst of Helen Clark's years when Southland Hospital was designed and built. Despite warnings from Dr's that it would be too small and create backlogs the Labour government of the day went ahead anyway and now we are dealing with the consequences.

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#3024021 19-Jan-2023 15:32

Rikkitic:

Five years ago we didn't have Covid and war in Ukraine and the economic repercussions of all that. But of course, blame it on Jacinda Ardern.

Thing is though money has been thrown around like we haven't seen in generations. Even with that Labour still haven't managed to get any major project over the line. Started with the Kiwibuild fiasco and continued with transport projects. Yes COVID has caused issues, but it can't all be explained away by that. Lack of progress in many areas is down to hopeless MP's and a lack of cohesiveness in the government. I don't blame Jacinda for her MP's ability or lack thereof, I'm sure she did the best she could with what she had but she is/was the leader and the buck stops with her.

networkn

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#3024022 19-Jan-2023 15:32

Rikkitic:

Five years ago we didn't have Covid and war in Ukraine and the economic repercussions of all that. But of course, blame it on Jacinda Ardern.

I assume when making your unending criticism of National (along with all the tired old cliches you roll out frequently), you make allowance for the fact they had a Global Financial Crisis, and 2 of the biggest natural disasters ever experienced in NZ, among other challenges? Yeah, I didn't think so :)

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#3024029 19-Jan-2023 15:44

networkn:

Jacinda Ardern to stand down no later than 7th Feb.

Election to be 14th October.

I have steered clear of the politics thread, but this news brought me back for a look. The expected comments from the usual suspects.

The good ship Labour has been listing and taking on water for a while. What Ardern and Robertson have done is effectively put a torpedo each into the hull.

Ardern’s star power is undeniable, although has perhaps lost a bit of its sparkle. How many people “voted for Jacinda”, in much the same way as “voting for Winston” happens for a different bunch of people. That former group is potentially lost to Labour now.

I was outside working in the garden. Did she make the announcement live, or via video link from Davos? 😉

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

marmel

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#3024030 19-Jan-2023 15:46

Dingbatt:

networkn:

Jacinda Ardern to stand down no later than 7th Feb.

Election to be 14th October.

I have steered clear of the politics thread, but this news brought me back for a look. The expected comments from the usual suspects.

The good ship Labour has been listing and taking on water for a while. What Ardern and Robertson have done is effectively put a torpedo each into the hull.

Ardern’s star power is undeniable, although has perhaps lost a bit of its sparkle. How many people “voted for Jacinda”, in much the same way as “voting for Winston” happens for a different bunch of people. That former group is potentially lost to Labour now.

I was outside working in the garden. Did she make the announcement live, or via video link from Davos? 😉

I haven't seen it yet but I believe it was live at a news conference.

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