Our new coalition government.

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#2319563 18-Sep-2019 07:13

networkn:

tdgeek:

Rikkitic:

I see Judith Collins and other National MPs are also involved in this. Just saying.

Fortunately, once this Govt is deposed we have Judith, Simon and Paula. OMG, it is one step removed from Trump.

Let's not throw stones whilst we live in glass houses shall we? You can draw plenty of parallels if you simply look hard enough.... 100K houses, "most honest and transparent Government NZ has ever had", and all that...

My simple point was, both sides are proven failures, nothing more, nothing less

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#2319564 18-Sep-2019 07:18

networkn:

tdgeek:

Going back a bit but your implication is clear. Im not sure where the teacher shortage resources are coming from. From 2017 or 2010? It didn't just start after the last election like most issues this poor country we live in has. Note that of all the things this Govt has done, not all are failures. The problem for NZ is if that continues or we go back to the past which is under funding everything. So its a loss from all as far as I'm concerned. I have lost faith with this Govt and the last one is no better. One cannot do it, the other wont do it.

There was no implication. There was what I stated, that it was amusing to see a Government announce a policy that requires more teachers (and depending on who you listen to, considerably more) when the next headline right underneath it at the same time was talk of teacher shortages.

That's all. You can stop looking for something to start a fight about now.

I am interested to hear, however, what you consider the big wins this Government had that no other Government would have? The policies that they came up with and executed that have provable results?

"Government announce a policy that requires more teachers (and depending on who you listen to, considerably more) when the next headline right underneath it at the same time was talk of teacher shortages."

Makes no sense

Where have I stated this Govt has had big wins that no other would have? Thats bizarre. IIRC I stated that this Govt has failed, that while it has ticked off a few good things, which are not airtime worthy, it has failed, and it will lose the next election. How that translates into " big wins that no other would have" I have no idea

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#2319590 18-Sep-2019 09:02

I basically agree with @tdgeek on this. I am very disappointed in this government. I hoped it would do better. As I have previously stated, I do not see National or any coalition led by National as a preferable alternative. If they gain power again, which I very much hope they do not (Labour is still the lesser of evils in my opinion), it will just be three more years of Tweedledum vs Tweedledee. I have given up closely following politics at the national level because it just depresses me too much. I think most of our politicians on both sides stink.

What I do still watch is what happens locally. National seems to have some really stupid fixations. More cows and bigger dairy operations will solve everything, never mind the environmental consequences. Our local National MP kept bleating on about their 'national roads of significance' long after they lost the election. No, National. More roads and more cars are not the answer either. If public transport had not been ignored (by all governments) for so many years, we wouldn't have the transport problems we have today. More recently, our local National goat has been taking out repeated front-page adds promising to undo the government's education changes which affect our local tertiary institute. When a government's only policy is to undo the policies of the previous government, it doesn't have any policies.

This government has disappointed me but I will still vote for it until something better appears.

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#2320054 19-Sep-2019 06:37

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115885818/nzta-backs-down-from-light-rail-looks-at-spending-millions-elsewhere

As someone who lives out West and has no busway or alternatives to driving, this is a real blow. Light Rail is basically not going to happen in the next ten years.

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#2320063 19-Sep-2019 07:23

GV27:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115885818/nzta-backs-down-from-light-rail-looks-at-spending-millions-elsewhere

As someone who lives out West and has no busway or alternatives to driving, this is a real blow. Light Rail is basically not going to happen in the next ten years.

Id like to know the cause of the delay, its because they can't find anyone to build it? Because they cant get a tender they like? Or does NZTA se it as not the best solution?

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#2320068 19-Sep-2019 08:16

tdgeek:

GV27:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/115885818/nzta-backs-down-from-light-rail-looks-at-spending-millions-elsewhere

As someone who lives out West and has no busway or alternatives to driving, this is a real blow. Light Rail is basically not going to happen in the next ten years.

Id like to know the cause of the delay, its because they can't find anyone to build it? Because they cant get a tender they like? Or does NZTA se it as not the best solution?

They're putting it off until after APEC. I recall a time when major events were why you brought infrastructure forward, not delayed the hell out of it.

As for economic benefits, we still haven't seen a case study for the Dominion Road route and there isn't even a business case underway for the North Western route.

Auckland Council initially had plans for three branches of Light Rail through the central isthmus; it might be time to revive those.

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#2320078 19-Sep-2019 08:29

GV27:

They're putting it off until after APEC. I recall a time when major events were why you brought infrastructure forward, not delayed the hell out of it.

As for economic benefits, we still haven't seen a case study for the Dominion Road route and there isn't even a business case underway for the North Western route.

Auckland Council initially had plans for three branches of Light Rail through the central isthmus; it might be time to revive those.

So who calls the shots here? Govt says here is money, NZTA seems to manage most of the rest of it from there, Govt is at arms length according to that article. Where does AC fit in?

I would have thought a Bus Rapid Transit system was a better idea, easier to adjust should transport needs change as development changes over time

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#2320110 19-Sep-2019 09:09

Rikkitic:

I basically agree with @tdgeek on this. I am very disappointed in this government. I hoped it would do better. As I have previously stated, I do not see National or any coalition led by National as a preferable alternative. If they gain power again, which I very much hope they do not (Labour is still the lesser of evils in my opinion), it will just be three more years of Tweedledum vs Tweedledee. I have given up closely following politics at the national level because it just depresses me too much. I think most of our politicians on both sides stink.

What I do still watch is what happens locally. National seems to have some really stupid fixations. More cows and bigger dairy operations will solve everything, never mind the environmental consequences. Our local National MP kept bleating on about their 'national roads of significance' long after they lost the election. No, National. More roads and more cars are not the answer either. If public transport had not been ignored (by all governments) for so many years, we wouldn't have the transport problems we have today. More recently, our local National goat has been taking out repeated front-page adds promising to undo the government's education changes which affect our local tertiary institute. When a government's only policy is to undo the policies of the previous government, it doesn't have any policies.

This government has disappointed me but I will still vote for it until something better appears.

I find it amazing that you can get away without being lambasted for this sort of close minded voting choice. If I made these sort of statements all hell would rain down. I also find it pretty poor you feel it appropriate to refer to people as goats.

You have a problem with more roads, but under this Government they cancelled most roading projects but have done nothing to otherwise alleviate traffic flows and really, nothing to slow immigration as significantly as they campaigned on, so we have a situation where, we have more people, no meaningful improvement to public transport and no more roads. Congestion. Hardly good for the environment, or the economy. You might not like roads (and I consider yours and Labours closed minded blanket approach to roads, silly) but in the absence of anything else, they will at least keep people moving. It may not be a problem for you, because you don't have to hit in traffic for hours a day, but it matters to a great many people. People who would rather be at home with their families and trades people who would like to be able to earn a decent living, and people who want timely delivery of their Ali express orders! One of the most significant things to happen to me personally was the completion of the ring road in Auckland. I went from 25-30 minutes on a good day to get to work and home again, to around 17-19 minutes. Might not seem like a lot to you, but multiply this by how many thousands use the roads every day, it's a huge thing. I don't believe Labour ended the roading projects because it genuinely assessed each one and genuinely didn't feel they would provide benefit (In which case some might have been mothballed but others would have remained) , but rather to cater to the group of voters in NZ who seem to think that people and goods get from A to B by magic carpet.

I note you are rarely, if ever, critical of the current coalition for it's reversal of Nationals policies. There have been a lot of them. Does this indicate they are bereft of policies too? (I mean, short of the fantasy ones they campaigned on without any ability to deliver).

You keep going on about more cows under National, but I don't recall much being said by National in 9 years about increasing the number of cows and farms, and especially not on a scale you seem to be indicating. I see a diversification of our reliance on farming as an income source, to things that I don't consider significantly better, in tourism, especially as it relates to the environment. I think it's time you updated your outdated preconceptions of what a National Government looks like, it looks like you haven't really updated it since the 1980's (where if you recall, Labour was just as hell bent on more cows and reliance on farmers to provide NZ with it's primary source of economic stimulus).

I am curious, I recall you saying you currently live on a farm, do you mind if I asked if you were previously farmers? You seem very dismissive and negative toward farming.

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#2320111 19-Sep-2019 09:12

tdgeek:

My simple point was, both sides are proven failures, nothing more, nothing less

Making the simple point, nothing more and nothing less, would be "both sides are proven failures". You instead declare impending comparative Trump ism, which is something entirely more.

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#2320113 19-Sep-2019 09:15

tdgeek:

So who calls the shots here? Govt says here is money, NZTA seems to manage most of the rest of it from there, Govt is at arms length according to that article. Where does AC fit in?

I would have thought a Bus Rapid Transit system was a better idea, easier to adjust should transport needs change as development changes over time

AT did the initial legwork on Dominion Road as it was running through local streets and the other routes were also based on urban areas.

LRT to the airport involves the motorways and that's where it becomes NZTA's remit. The decision was made to hand the thing over to them post-election.

As for BRT, it would be a great first step if it means getting something in areas where there is currently nothing e.g. the West, but won't resolve bus congestion issues inside the central city area which is supposedly going to get way worse.

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#2320123 19-Sep-2019 09:36

What a load of drivel. Its a pity that all this started in 2017. Defend who you are permanenlty married to, thats fine with me. No matter what it is its always a problem. There is always an excuse.

Moving along to real people with real concerns, that report involved a huge amount of planning and cooperation between AC and NZTA. They all need to agree on the transport needs into the future, thats seems a problem. If NZTA doesnt favour LR or doesnt favour it as much and National doesnt want it, then either its gone or it will be ongoing planning and getting nowhere. The benefit with Rapid Bus is they carry more, are more efficient and its less costly and less time to commandeer roadways for these buses, then hard built rail.

At the end of the day all involved cannot agree on where AKL will be in the future and how to get there. Rapid Buses may be the only option as thats more flexible

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#2320130 19-Sep-2019 09:49

As I understand it, there are three main reasons people don't catch public transport in cities like Auckland:

1) Cost (Compared to driving)

2) Number of services, frequency, and reliability (related to convenience and ability to get where you need to be on time, such as work).

3) Genuine need to have a car (for work, or because you pick kids up on the way home or whatever).

I do wonder then, if the right way to handle this, is to have the Auckland Council (In this example) heavily subsidies public transport, so that 1) is simply not a factor. When I lived in Christchurch (a long time ago now), to get from Mt Pleasant, to the city, was $1.80 and if you caught the bus back within 4 hours, the return trip was free. When I moved to Auckland, the cost of public transport very nearly ended me financially (I am not actually kidding) as it was $3.40 to get from Blockhouse Bay, to the City, and then the same again to return. I believe solving 1 would help with solving 2, as there would be less cars on the road, the roads would be freer to have additional services etc.

The Council spends huge money on many road type initiatives etc, but if they diverted a relatively small % of that and used to to make it so for example, a segment was say $1 and a trip back was included within whatever timeframe (4 hours or so), then you would be spending less on road maintenance and other such things. I do not know how much that would cost, but I expect it would be doable.

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#2320133 19-Sep-2019 09:51

tdgeek:

The benefit with Rapid Bus is they carry more, are more efficient and its less costly and less time to commandeer roadways for these buses, then hard built rail.

Again, there is the issue with too many buses moving down one route to the extent they can't even stop to pick up passengers (Dominion Road) or at the end of the journey in the city where they snarl up entire city blocks because there's too many of them.

One Light Rail vehicle can take three times as many people as a bus can. That's why these high-traffic routes were flagged for LRT; there simply isn't capacity on the routes for the number of buses it would require. You'd end up with the same outcomes - entire lanes of traffic taken up entirely by buses so you'll end up in the same boat as LRT anyway.

There's a real case to be made for busway followed by eventual conversion to LRT when demand warrants it, but then you can end up with a situation that's unfolded in East Auckland - initial project scaled back to buses on the proviso it could be upgraded in future, but then future cost-cutting means it can no longer be upgraded - from what I've been told, anyway. Nothing would surprise me.

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#2320137 19-Sep-2019 09:55

If you look at the busiest cities in the world, it's rare for them to be using buses as a primary method to move large number of people. LRT is more scalable.

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#2320139 19-Sep-2019 09:58

@networkn:

"I find it amazing that you can get away without being lambasted for this sort of close minded voting choice. If I made these sort of statements all hell would rain down. I also find it pretty poor you feel it appropriate to refer to people as goats."

I don't think I am getting away with it at all. You do a pretty good job of lambasting me. Goats are cute creatures. We have them all over the roads here thanks to a careless past relative.

"You have a problem with more roads ... etc."

You keep turning this into a binary National vs Labour discussion. I have repeatedly said that I am not enamoured of this government either, I just think it is less awful overall than a National one would be. That does not mean I am prepared to defend its many goofs. To respond to your specific point, there are some fundamental philosophical differences between the left and right, and the issue of roads vs public transport is one of these. More roads may make your commute easier for a few years, but I personally believe it is a dead-end solution. All it does is push the problem out a little. Studies everywhere have demonstrated that more roads just attract more traffic, like roaches to leftover food. They don't fix anything in the long term. They just make it worse. Because of our history as a spread-out nation with a small population, cars as the main means of transport made sense. That time is coming to an end. Massive investment in roads means less for public transport.

Apart from that, this government is actually doing a lot of road work. I have been seeing evidence of it locally and around the country. The work it is doing is related to safety, with lane barriers and other improvements being installed at a high rate. As a family man I would think improving the odds of you making it home in one piece would rate higher than getting there 10 minutes earlier but what do I know?

"I note you are rarely, if ever, critical of the current coalition for it's reversal of Nationals policies ..."

Again, I am not a defender of this government. I am also not opposed in principle to undoing what the previous government has done, as long as the new government has something better to replace it with. This is my criticism of the National policy regarding tertiary institutes.

"You keep going on about more cows under National ..."

I have seen repeated references over time to increasing the scale of dairying specifically in different contexts. No, I don't have any quotes. I don't usually save them up for discussions like this. I'm sure I could find some but I can't be bothered.

"I am curious, I recall you saying you currently live on a farm, do you mind if I asked if you were previously farmers? You seem very dismissive and negative toward farming."

I live on a retired farm. It has not been involved in farming activities for many years, though some land is leased out to other farmers. I am not dismissive and negative toward farming, just critical of some short-sighted farming activities, like feed lots and unfenced streams and excessive use of fertilisers and herbicides, which planes dump everywhere. I am all in favour of more diversification. We have the potential to become another Silicon Valley and another Bollywood, amongst other things. At least these don't pollute the streams.

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