Maori Seats

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#1827296 22-Jul-2017 21:04

Batman:

It just does. That's the crazy MMP system. Even without the Maori seats, nobody knows what happens until the votes are in, the formula is more complicated than rocket science.

Im not sure if your joking or not.

Its not complex. If you get party votes, you get that % as seats. As long as you get one seat, or you get over 5% of all party votes.

If you get seats and 51%, you get 51% of the seats.

If you get one seat, and 4.5% of the votes , you get 4.5% of the seats

If you get no seats, but get 7.8% of the party votes, you get 7.8% of the seats.

Thats pretty much it.

Wiggum

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#1827297 22-Jul-2017 21:06

Batman:

All I know is if you win a seat, you get that seat.

But if you don't win a seat, and you have 5% party vote, you get some seats, proportionate to some magical formula.

If you have 51% party vote, your seats depend on the above, usually you get more than your party vote because some party votes under 5% will be lost.

I don't think thats really true.

Conservative party for example got 4% of the party vote, yet they don't get any seats. The whole system is flawed IMO.

Maori party obtained less votes than the Conservatives, yet they have seats.

tdgeek

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#1827298 22-Jul-2017 21:07

Wiggum:

tdgeek:

Batman:

It just does. That's the crazy MMP system. Even without the Maori seats, nobody knows what happens until the votes are in, the formula is more complicated than rocket science.

It just does? Thats not an answer. If the Nats get 51% of the party vote, they get 51% of the seats. They win, and need no one else. They don't need Act, or Maori Party.

Now, your talking even if they don't get Maori seats, thats not the question. The point was the W man says Nats get 51% of the party vote, they get 51% of the seats but may not be able to form a Govt, I'd like to know how.

51% will always get the same number of seats. But if there is an overhang, more seats get added, and suddenly the 51% is no longer the majority of seats. Thats how I understand it anyway. Perhaps we should look more closely at how it works, and find out the exact formula.

This would never have been a problem in the past without MMP. The problem is caused by a combination of MMP and the Maori seats, not really one or the other.

What is an overhang? The votes are fixed, the seats are fixed. I dint follow what an overhang means. In this context forget Maori seats, thats a red herring. (Red Herring means it seems linked, but its not)

MikeB4

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#1827299 22-Jul-2017 21:08

Wiggum:
Batman:

All I know is if you win a seat, you get that seat.

But if you don't win a seat, and you have 5% party vote, you get some seats, proportionate to some magical formula.

If you have 51% party vote, your seats depend on the above, usually you get more than your party vote because some party votes under 5% will be lost.

I don't think thats really true.

Conservative party for example got 4% of the party vote, yet they don't get any seats. The whole system is flawed IMO.

Maori party obtained less votes than the Conservatives, yet they have seats.

No, Conservatives achieved 3.97%

Wiggum

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#1827300 22-Jul-2017 21:09

tdgeek:

What is an overhang? The votes are fixed, the seats are fixed. I dint follow what an overhang means. In this context forget Maori seats, thats a red herring. (Red Herring means it seems linked, but its not)

http://www.elections.org.nz/sites/default/files/bulk-upload/documents/Overhangs_submissions.pdf

Wiggum

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#1827301 22-Jul-2017 21:10

MikeB4:
Wiggum:

Batman:

All I know is if you win a seat, you get that seat.

But if you don't win a seat, and you have 5% party vote, you get some seats, proportionate to some magical formula.

If you have 51% party vote, your seats depend on the above, usually you get more than your party vote because some party votes under 5% will be lost.

I don't think thats really true.

Conservative party for example got 4% of the party vote, yet they don't get any seats. The whole system is flawed IMO.

Maori party obtained less votes than the Conservatives, yet they have seats.

No, Conservatives achieved 3.97%

LOL. Yes right, my bad. Maori party though achieved less than 2%. And how many seats do they have?

MikeB4

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#1827302 22-Jul-2017 21:13

NZ Maori Party won 1 electorate seat and the formula applied to all parties gave it 1 list seat

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Trade NZ and US shares and funds with Sharesies (affiliate link).

Wiggum

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#1827303 22-Jul-2017 21:13

tdgeek:

[q

What is an overhang? The votes are fixed, the seats are fixed. I dint follow what an overhang means. In this context forget Maori seats, thats a red herring. (Red Herring means it seems linked, but its not)

The number of seats though is not fixed.

Batman

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#1827304 22-Jul-2017 21:14

tdgeek:

Batman:

It just does. That's the crazy MMP system. Even without the Maori seats, nobody knows what happens until the votes are in, the formula is more complicated than rocket science.

Im not sure if your joking or not.

Its not complex. If you get party votes, you get that % as seats. As long as you get one seat, or you get over 5% of all party votes.

If you get seats and 51%, you get 51% of the seats.

If you get one seat, and 4.5% of the votes , you get 4.5% of the seats

If you get no seats, but get 7.8% of the party votes, you get 7.8% of the seats.

Thats pretty much it.

Is that how MMP works? That's very simple. Wow I never knew how it was calculated.

tdgeek

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#1827305 22-Jul-2017 21:15

Wiggum:

Batman:

All I know is if you win a seat, you get that seat.

But if you don't win a seat, and you have 5% party vote, you get some seats, proportionate to some magical formula.

If you have 51% party vote, your seats depend on the above, usually you get more than your party vote because some party votes under 5% will be lost.

I don't think thats really true.

Conservative party for example got 4% of the party vote, yet they don't get any seats. The whole system is flawed IMO.

Maori party obtained less votes than the Conservatives, yet they have seats.

4% gets no seats, unless you win a seat, then you get 4%

Maori Party must have won a seat, so they get the %

I expect the reason is that you don't want the TDGEEK Party who has lots of idiot friends, getting 2% of the vote, and 2% of the seats. If you get 5% thats significant, you deserve it. You're real. If you win an electorate seat, you are also real and thus deserve it. We don't want a small number of silly parties in Govt, because they get some votes. IMHO

Wiggum

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#1827306 22-Jul-2017 21:17

Batman:

If you get seats and 51%, you get 51% of the seats.

Thats incorrect. We only know about overhangs and how many seats there will be after results are in.

So 51% of votes, can result in less than 50% of seats.

Handle9

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#1827309 22-Jul-2017 21:19

Wiggum:
Batman:

All I know is if you win a seat, you get that seat.

But if you don't win a seat, and you have 5% party vote, you get some seats, proportionate to some magical formula.

If you have 51% party vote, your seats depend on the above, usually you get more than your party vote because some party votes under 5% will be lost.

I don't think thats really true.

Conservative party for example got 4% of the party vote, yet they don't get any seats. The whole system is flawed IMO.

Maori party obtained less votes than the Conservatives, yet they have seats.

Of course so did Act and United Future (and far less than the Maori Party). Don't let that worry you though, I guess they are ok in your view.

tdgeek

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#1827311 22-Jul-2017 21:19

Batman:

tdgeek:

Batman:

It just does. That's the crazy MMP system. Even without the Maori seats, nobody knows what happens until the votes are in, the formula is more complicated than rocket science.

Im not sure if your joking or not.

Its not complex. If you get party votes, you get that % as seats. As long as you get one seat, or you get over 5% of all party votes.

If you get seats and 51%, you get 51% of the seats.

If you get one seat, and 4.5% of the votes , you get 4.5% of the seats

If you get no seats, but get 7.8% of the party votes, you get 7.8% of the seats.

Thats pretty much it.

Is that how MMP works? That's very simple. Wow I never knew how it was calculated.

Yes its quite simple, which is important. If though you had say 3 little parties, that are serious and not silly, they could all get 4% and no seats, and therefore no say.

And waste 12% of the vote. Gareth type parties. But you have to draw a line somewhere.

MikeB4

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#1827312 22-Jul-2017 21:20

Wiggum:
Batman:

If you get seats and 51%, you get 51% of the seats.

Thats incorrect. We only know about overhangs and how many seats there will be after results are in.

So 51% of votes, can result in less than 50% of seats.

That's normally how elections work around world, you now the outcome when the results are in.

Batman

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#1827314 22-Jul-2017 21:21

tdgeek:

Batman:

tdgeek:

Batman:

It just does. That's the crazy MMP system. Even without the Maori seats, nobody knows what happens until the votes are in, the formula is more complicated than rocket science.

Im not sure if your joking or not.

Its not complex. If you get party votes, you get that % as seats. As long as you get one seat, or you get over 5% of all party votes.

If you get seats and 51%, you get 51% of the seats.

If you get one seat, and 4.5% of the votes , you get 4.5% of the seats

If you get no seats, but get 7.8% of the party votes, you get 7.8% of the seats.

Thats pretty much it.

Is that how MMP works? That's very simple. Wow I never knew how it was calculated.

Yes its quite simple, which is important. If though you had say 3 little parties, that are serious and not silly, they could all get 4% and no seats, and therefore no say.

And waste 12% of the vote. Gareth type parties. But you have to draw a line somewhere.

I recall the Civilian party ...

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