NZ 2023 Election Thread

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Uber Geek
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#3119341 23-Aug-2023 12:52

So when the Chippy's are down it seems that highlighting all you've achieved (sic) and promising lollies ad nausem isnt enough so its time to get negative.

From Newshub: "We haven't been as negative or as critical about their approach. Maybe we should be a little more," Hipkins said.

He is turning the electoral strategy dial from hope to fear. "

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/election-2023-chris-hipkins-dials-up-the-negative-as-internal-polling-shows-labour-in-difficult-position.html

But when the vast majority of people think things have got worse under this Government are scare tactics going to work. Do people want a continuation of worse or hope for something (anything) better?

From RNZ: "Curia, who also polls for the Taxpayers Union, also surveyed recently on levels of satisfaction with public services. As reported by Stuff's Luke Malpass, dissatisfaction with government services appears to be skyrocketing.

According to the survey, voters say public services have got worse since 2020 in the following key areas: Health (70 percent say it's worse), Criminal Justice (64 percent), Education (57 percent), Transport (47 percent) and Welfare (37 percent). Notably, most Labour voters also say things have got worse."

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/496367/bryce-edwards-is-it-now-all-over-for-the-labour-government

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

Rikkitic

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#3119355 23-Aug-2023 13:40

ockel:

But when the vast majority of people think things have got worse under this Government are scare tactics going to work. Do people want a continuation of worse or hope for something (anything) better?

What never ceases to perplex me is the sweetly simple-minded belief people seem to have that anything will somehow magically be better under a National-led government. It will just be more of the same old same old, Tweedledum handing over to Tweedledee.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

sen8or

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#3119374 23-Aug-2023 14:37

Rikkitic:

ockel:

But when the vast majority of people think things have got worse under this Government are scare tactics going to work. Do people want a continuation of worse or hope for something (anything) better?

What never ceases to perplex me is the sweetly simple-minded belief people seem to have that anything will somehow magically be better under a National-led government. It will just be more of the same old same old, Tweedledum handing over to Tweedledee.

In a single term, not a chance, I would expect National to need some time to steady the ship and find out the true state of the nation. I remember when they got into power in about 2008, they were left with a whopping hidden hole in the books (ACC - $1bio https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/govt-fears-1b-acc-budget-problem-could-worsen/FEG37TPPE7TGPE4D6565J3TFLE/) Who knows what the true state of them will be when they get opened up this time, but if they are no worse than whats reported, it still makes for an ugly situation to come in to.

Towards the latter part of their term (so 2025 - 2026) I would expect to see any of the dirt swept away and National's policies coming into effect, it will be year 2 onwards where results could be reasonably be expected and then judgements made.

I'm not sure its magically expected to be better, but it certainly can't be worse (the old slogan "we're not as $hit as the other lot" springs to mind)

ockel

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#3119377 23-Aug-2023 14:59

Rikkitic:

ockel:

But when the vast majority of people think things have got worse under this Government are scare tactics going to work. Do people want a continuation of worse or hope for something (anything) better?

What never ceases to perplex me is the sweetly simple-minded belief people seem to have that anything will somehow magically be better under a National-led government. It will just be more of the same old same old, Tweedledum handing over to Tweedledee.

Or the naivety of sweetly simple-minded people to think that we can continue on the current path.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

Bluntj

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#3119487 23-Aug-2023 17:05

Rikkitic:

ockel:

But when the vast majority of people think things have got worse under this Government are scare tactics going to work. Do people want a continuation of worse or hope for something (anything) better?

What never ceases to perplex me is the sweetly simple-minded belief people seem to have that anything will somehow magically be better under a National-led government. It will just be more of the same old same old, Tweedledum handing over to Tweedledee.

All I hope is that a change of Government will actually do some of the things they promised. Labour has to be the biggest bunglers ever. Maybe you don't remember their first big promise and waste of zillions..Kiwisaver. Clearly they have done some things well, but generally after dozens of reviews things have got a lot worse eg Health and Polytechs. There doesn't seem to have been much accountability for the massive expenditure that has occurred. The next lot can't be any worse. It also looks like they will be reporting a massive debt blowout of $35B (from NZH).

tdgeek

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#3119495 23-Aug-2023 17:35

ockel:

So when the Chippy's are down

It all depends if you feel that Labour caused everything? Its well documented here that the other boring issues such as Covid and Ukraine are minor.

IIRC past political thread FUG's say that you must call MP's by their name, not "stardust" or latterly "chippy"

Be that as it may, its fine to criticise, but are National to win this election as Labour is stupid (which infers that National may also be stupid but less stupid) or that National is our Saving Grace (sorry Tom Petty)

Today I read from Chris Luxon that apparently the team he has is the best ever (my words) he did quote a date/period. Wow, that is shocking.Goldsmith was a Labour PR guy then rep for Finance, Wood similar but cast out. I rate John Key, I rate Bill English, I DO NOT RATE C. Luxon or N. Willis for obvious reasons.

Disappointingly this is getting quite silly.

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tdgeek

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#3119496 23-Aug-2023 17:45

Rikkitic:

What never ceases to perplex me is the sweetly simple-minded belief people seem to have that anything will somehow magically be better under a National-led government. It will just be more of the same old same old, Tweedledum handing over to Tweedledee.

Correct. There is a time for conservatism and a time for progressive. We can all name a myriad of negative issues for both parties over the last 6 years.

End of the day, NZ does not have natural resources it can mine, we just box on best we can. Labour or National cannot change that. Same cycle, we need a change, 2 or 3 cycles later we need a change, but we still end up where we are.

I am a swing voter, I wont be financially affected by whoever wins, our life will go on as normal. Others, not so much. I will benefit from alternating from bitching posts here to its their fault posts lol. (Despite when that was stated in 2017 it was BAGGED) LOL, yes, sadly.

The only point of interest that I see is if ACT win big. Or in the very very unlikely scenario that Labour wins, that Greens win big

What we all agree on is that W.Peters Esq. doesnt

tdgeek

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#3119497 23-Aug-2023 17:49

sen8or:

In a single term, not a chance, I would expect National to need some time to steady the ship and find out the true state of the nation. I remember when they got into power in about 2008, they were left with a whopping hidden hole in the books (ACC - $1bio https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/govt-fears-1b-acc-budget-problem-could-worsen/FEG37TPPE7TGPE4D6565J3TFLE/) Who knows what the true state of them will be when they get opened up this time, but if they are no worse than whats reported, it still makes for an ugly situation to come in to.

Towards the latter part of their term (so 2025 - 2026) I would expect to see any of the dirt swept away and National's policies coming into effect, it will be year 2 onwards where results could be reasonably be expected and then judgements made.

I'm not sure its magically expected to be better, but it certainly can't be worse (the old slogan "we're not as $hit as the other lot" springs to mind)

Minimising? Labour hasn't ruined this country, Covid and Ukraine have as has been the case globally. Inflation has peaked and its declining, who did that? Not National. Nor Labour as we ride a global wave.

I'm looking forward to Nationals policies. For housing , health, education, infrastructure.

tdgeek

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#3119499 23-Aug-2023 17:50

Bluntj:

All I hope is that a change of Government will actually do some of the things they promised. Labour has to be the biggest bunglers ever. Maybe you don't remember their first big promise and waste of zillions..Kiwisaver. Clearly they have done some things well, but generally after dozens of reviews things have got a lot worse eg Health and Polytechs. There doesn't seem to have been much accountability for the massive expenditure that has occurred. The next lot can't be any worse. It also looks like they will be reporting a massive debt blowout of $35B (from NZH).

I assume you mean Kiwibuild?

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#3119504 23-Aug-2023 17:53

tdgeek:

Minimising? Labour hasn't ruined this country, Covid and Ukraine have as has been the case globally. Inflation has peaked and its declining, who did that? Not National. Nor Labour as we ride a global wave.

Inflation has peaked? I don't think many agree with the rosy picture Labour are painting.

tdgeek

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#3119507 23-Aug-2023 18:07

SirHumphreyAppleby:

tdgeek:

Minimising? Labour hasn't ruined this country, Covid and Ukraine have as has been the case globally. Inflation has peaked and its declining, who did that? Not National. Nor Labour as we ride a global wave.

Inflation has peaked? I don't think many agree with the rosy picture Labour are painting.

Lost my post, grrr.

So I wont bother. is our inflation Labour caused?

Better to post a non political video, for obvious reasons.

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tdgeek

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#3119508 23-Aug-2023 18:12

SirHumphreyAppleby:

Inflation has peaked? I don't think many agree with the rosy picture Labour are painting.

Good video though. It seems that our inflation is heavily home grown, and minorly affected by global outcomes?

End of the day vote National, if its heavily localised, very very easily fixed.

Handle9

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#3119511 23-Aug-2023 18:42

Things are going to get pretty interesting after Rawiri Waititi said in parliament today:

"The leader of ACT chiming in about law and order ...."

I've skipped the rest due to name suppression but the question can be watched in the link below. It's pretty easy to join the dots from there.

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=236175

Bluntj

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#3119554 23-Aug-2023 21:51

tdgeek:

Bluntj:

All I hope is that a change of Government will actually do some of the things they promised. Labour has to be the biggest bunglers ever. Maybe you don't remember their first big promise and waste of zillions..Kiwisaver. Clearly they have done some things well, but generally after dozens of reviews things have got a lot worse eg Health and Polytechs. There doesn't seem to have been much accountability for the massive expenditure that has occurred. The next lot can't be any worse. It also looks like they will be reporting a massive debt blowout of $35B (from NZH).

I assume you mean Kiwibuild?

Yes I did I'm sorry and I can't edit it now.

GV27

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#3119624 24-Aug-2023 06:16

Handle9:

Things are going to get pretty interesting after Rawiri Waititi said in parliament today:

"The leader of ACT chiming in about law and order ...."

I've skipped the rest due to name suppression but the question can be watched in the link below. It's pretty easy to join the dots from there.

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=236175

I think people need to take more of an interest in this. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of effectively breaching a suppression order in a serious criminal case for political purposes in parliament - for my mind, that's a cynical use of the power of parliamentary privilege.

This is quite different to someone getting up and making a protected allegation of serious wrong-doing .e.g Winston's whistle-blowing during the Winebox era.

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