NZ 2023 Election Thread

To post in this sub-forum you must have made 100 posts or have Trust status or have completed our ID Verification

Forums › Politics › NZ 2023 Election Thread

1 | ... | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | ... | 102

2113 posts

Uber Geek

#3119628 24-Aug-2023 07:03

Rikkitic:

What never ceases to perplex me is the sweetly simple-minded belief people seem to have that anything will somehow magically be better under a National-led government. It will just be more of the same old same old, Tweedledum handing over to Tweedledee.

I think what I find frustrating is that with all the doom and gloom about interest rate rises and people tightening their belts is that why are we so dependent on homeowners spending excess cash?

I know the answer and it annoys me. That we are essentially a housing economy with some bits and pieces tacked on. The thing is, as time goes by, fewer and fewer will actually own houses, so interest rates will be of less and less of a concern. Yes I know it could increase one's rent etc.

So if we have a change of government, will they waive a magic wand, pass legislation to force the Reserve Bank to reduce the OCR? Our population is ageing too quickly and probably beyond the point of no return.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3119629 24-Aug-2023 07:04

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/election-2023-national-would-keep-fees-free-policy-wouldn-t-means-test-despite-reckons-from-candidate.html

Rollback heaven, again.

Still waiting for housing infrastructure health and education policies...

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3119630 24-Aug-2023 07:08

mudguard:

So if we have a change of government, will they waive a magic wand, pass legislation to force the Reserve Bank to reduce the OCR? Our population is ageing too quickly and probably beyond the point of no return.

From what Ive read they will rollback Labours housing changes, allow foreign buyers, remove the interest deductibility for landlords. Etc. One would assume that housing will become more investor friendly, and with the addition of foreign buyers.

Handle9

11386 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3119631 24-Aug-2023 07:08

GV27:
Handle9:

Things are going to get pretty interesting after Rawiri Waititi said in parliament today:

"The leader of ACT chiming in about law and order ...."

I've skipped the rest due to name suppression but the question can be watched in the link below. It's pretty easy to join the dots from there.

https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=236175

I think people need to take more of an interest in this. I'm not sure I agree with the idea of effectively breaching a suppression order in a serious criminal case for political purposes in parliament - for my mind, that's a cynical use of the power of parliamentary privilege.

This is quite different to someone getting up and making a protected allegation of serious wrong-doing .e.g Winston's whistle-blowing during the Winebox era.

There’s two very different sides of this issue.

One is if you are going to play the law and order card you have to be whiter than white.

The other is law makers should uphold the law and respect the courts.

From my point perspective both Waititi and Act come out of this smelling like crap. Probably only one party cares.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#3119634 24-Aug-2023 07:38

Handle9:

There’s two very different sides of this issue.

One is if you are going to play the law and order card you have to be whiter than white.

The other is law makers should uphold the law and respect the courts.

From my point perspective both Waititi and Act come out of this smelling like crap. Probably only one party cares.

I'm not aware Seymour has done anything wrong, and ACT has had long-standing policy focus on Law & Order. There is no ACT MP involved in any wrong-doing here.

The only one who has actually done anything wrong here is Waititi. He's almost certainly breached suppression orders with his stunt, which was entirely politically motivated. His comments also suggest he doesn't actually understand the rules around the thing he did for political grand-standing purposes.

sir1963

3260 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#3119807 24-Aug-2023 15:03

ACT...predictable, more money to be spent on prisons.

Why can $1 Billion be found to build prisons, $100,000 + a year per prisoner to keep them incarcerated

But $0 found to support families to prevent crime in the first place.

I agree, something like 5% of prisoners should never be let out, but the rest can be made functional in society with time and money.

More money into drug/alcohol rehab

More money into mental health

More money into schools so kids with issues can get 1 on 1 time with a variety of approaches until on clicks

"The beatings will continue until morale improves" has NEVER worked. EU countries have found trading people as human while in prison actual pays huge dividends,

SirHumphreyAppleby

2844 posts

Uber Geek

#3119825 24-Aug-2023 15:22

sir1963:

I agree, something like 5% of prisoners should never be let out, but the rest can be made functional in society with time and money.

The can be made functional in society by making them work for their room and board.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

sir1963

3260 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#3119832 24-Aug-2023 15:51

SirHumphreyAppleby:

sir1963:

I agree, something like 5% of prisoners should never be let out, but the rest can be made functional in society with time and money.

The can be made functional in society by making them work for their room and board.

Having had dinner with a prison psychologist some years back, there are just some people who will never be able to fit in.
And I am against the death penalty, it has been estimated in the USA approx 10% of people who have been executed were innocent.

sen8or

1787 posts

Uber Geek

#3119848 24-Aug-2023 17:00

I think Labours experiment with keeping the prison numbers low by simply not locking them up hasn't really worked well and there seems to be so many factors that have to be considered when sentencing, its a nightmare (I'm almost surprised there isn't a discount for the emotional trauma of actually being caught!)

Prevention is absolutely better than the cure, but where do you put the money and where does the extra money come from?

I've said before and I'll repeat, I will happily forgo any tax cut IF it can be shown that a Government is spending the tax money responsibly and is achieving tangible / measurable results

sir1963

3260 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#3119858 24-Aug-2023 17:58

sen8or:

I think Labours experiment with keeping the prison numbers low by simply not locking them up hasn't really worked well and there seems to be so many factors that have to be considered when sentencing, its a nightmare (I'm almost surprised there isn't a discount for the emotional trauma of actually being caught!)

Prevention is absolutely better than the cure, but where do you put the money and where does the extra money come from?

I've said before and I'll repeat, I will happily forgo any tax cut IF it can be shown that a Government is spending the tax money responsibly and is achieving tangible / measurable results

How do you measure things like spending money on kids welfare where the return may be decades away ?

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3119876 24-Aug-2023 19:07

+1 to both of you

The issue is that votes mean now. Yet if a government was in power for 20 years, such goals can be realised. Slightly a Utopia comment. When Government periods are short, the goals are short, even though the campaign shows long, solid fake goals. It never is, as said Govt won't be there. So the actuals show that Govts/parties aim for the short term gain not the long term goal.

So, a long term autocracy could be great? Yes, if it was Mother Teresa. But IIRC most long term autocracies have been horrid.

sir1963

3260 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#3119878 24-Aug-2023 19:09

tdgeek:

+1 to both of you

The issue is that votes mean now. Yet if a government was in power for 20 years, such goals can be realised. Slightly a Utopia comment. When Government periods are short, the goals are short, even though the campaign shows long, solid fake goals. It never is, as said Govt won't be there. So the actuals show that Govts/parties aim for the short term gain not the long term goal.

So, a long term autocracy could be great? Yes, if it was Mother Teresa. But IIRC most long term autocracies have been horrid.

Mother Teressa was horrid, she took massive amounts of money from the poor and sent it back to Rome.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#3119880 24-Aug-2023 19:19

sir1963:

Mother Teressa was horrid, she took massive amounts of money from the poor and sent it back to Rome.

Ok, ok, I thought she was ok, understood

quickymart

13925 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#3119930 24-Aug-2023 20:45

sir1963:

Mother Teresa

https://gwern.net/doc/rotten.com/library/bio/religion/mother-teresa/index.html

sen8or

1787 posts

Uber Geek

#3119981 25-Aug-2023 07:58

sir1963:

How do you measure things like spending money on kids welfare where the return may be decades away ?

Difficult, but you could use measures like -

School attendance rates, preventable illness (from drier / healthier homes), reduction in child obesity (through healthier food choices) and even reduction in teen pregnancy rates.

Whilst none of these will show immediate results, they could be indicators that things are heading in the right direction (?)

1 | ... | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | ... | 102