Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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Networkn
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#2013126 10-May-2018 09:50

rjt123: The majority of the people wants the government to collect more tax. Sounds great.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12048307

The real story though is "as long as we don't pay it ourselves" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Happy for income tax to rise (as in, may a new tax bracket for the wealthy).

What about the not-so-wealthy? Oh, make the first few thousand they earn tax free.

It's hard not to look at this article and not believe it's a shill piece for the Labour Government, honestly.

Bear in mind the following:

The poll of 700 people took place In late April and had a margin of error of 3.7 per cent.

700 people? From 4.8 Million, seems representative!

networkn

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#2013133 10-May-2018 09:59

Hosking made two interesting points in todays column about NZF. First being that there are a number of upset NZF voters over how this new 1B plan for foreign aid isn't exactly New Zealand FIRST at all. Second saying what I have referenced before, that there is some deep-seated resentment of Peters running roughshod right over the wishes of a good percentage of his caucus in joining with Labour in the first instance, when those people had voted for and been part of NZF with a new to joining with National, and "keeping them honest".

6FIEND

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#2013135 10-May-2018 10:00

rjt123: The majority of the people wants the government to collect more tax. Sounds great.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12048307

The real story though is "as long as we don't pay it ourselves" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Happy for income tax to rise (as in, may a new tax bracket for the wealthy).

What about the not-so-wealthy? Oh, make the first few thousand they earn tax free.

"A majority of people said top earners in New Zealand paid too little tax"

Well, they already pay the lion's share of (net) tax. In fact, the majority of New Zealanders effectively pay NO tax because the top earners pay so much.

How much more distorted do people want this model to get exactly?

MikeB4

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#2013138 10-May-2018 10:03

networkn:

rjt123: The majority of the people wants the government to collect more tax. Sounds great.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12048307

The real story though is "as long as we don't pay it ourselves" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Happy for income tax to rise (as in, may a new tax bracket for the wealthy).

What about the not-so-wealthy? Oh, make the first few thousand they earn tax free.

It's hard not to look at this article and not believe it's a shill piece for the Labour Government, honestly.

Bear in mind the following:

The poll of 700 people took place In late April and had a margin of error of 3.7 per cent.

700 people? From 4.8 Million, seems representative!

The sampling does work

rjt123

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#2013177 10-May-2018 10:30

MikeB4:
networkn:

rjt123: The majority of the people wants the government to collect more tax. Sounds great.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12048307

The real story though is "as long as we don't pay it ourselves" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Happy for income tax to rise (as in, may a new tax bracket for the wealthy).

What about the not-so-wealthy? Oh, make the first few thousand they earn tax free.

It's hard not to look at this article and not believe it's a shill piece for the Labour Government, honestly.

Bear in mind the following:

The poll of 700 people took place In late April and had a margin of error of 3.7 per cent.

700 people? From 4.8 Million, seems representative!

The sampling does work

Absolutely sampling works.

It's how the the questions and the context they frame them in that skews the result.

Though the result is not surprising. I mean I am more than happy for everyone else to pay more tax, just not me. But everyone knows that that's not really how it works in the real world.

MikeAqua

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#2013179 10-May-2018 10:31

MikeB4:

The sampling does work

Assuming a normal distribution, which is a sketchy assumption for data that isn't truly empirical.

Mike

networkn

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#2013180 10-May-2018 10:32

Guys, for the love of Christmas Crackers, can we PLEASE quote appropriately. It's just laziness. There is no need to quote 2 pages of stuff to add 1 line at the bottom of it. Please PLEASE just quote the relevant section. If you need help, ask someone.

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networkn

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#2013182 10-May-2018 10:33

MikeAqua:

MikeB4:

The sampling does work

Assuming a normal distribution, which is a sketchy assumption for data that isn't truly empirical.

This is my point. Unless you know that the sample was pretty random, you could easily skew your results to show anything, but simply picking a region of NZ which predominantly houses specific socio-economic groups.

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#2013184 10-May-2018 10:35

The research companies have very strict scripts for their interviewers to follow and how they are to fulfill their sampling and in the most part the results are good. That's not saying people will like the result and how one feels about the accuracy depends where one falls in the result.

networkn

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#2013186 10-May-2018 10:37

MikeB4:

The research companies have very strict scripts for their interviewers to follow and how they are to fulfill their sampling and in the most part the results are good. That's not saying people will like the result and how one feels about the accuracy depends where one falls in the result.

I have in the fringe with market research companies, I can assure you that there is some fiddling going on the back end depending on what the client wants to see too.

If the client wants results to show a particular thing, that's what the results will show.

It's a lot harder to get a specific bent on results if the sizes are larger.

MikeAqua

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#2013207 10-May-2018 10:42

I would also agree the govt needs to collect more revenue.

I'm just not sure squeezing PAYE earners even harder is going to help.

Widening the catchment of GST is step in the right direction. Minimising opportunities for people and companies to avoid tax by shifting wealth and revenue around woudl also be good idea, but may require international collaboration.

Massively reducing the tax exemption criteria for charities is worth a look. Limit tax exemptions only to organisations that exist solely to help people in distress or support education with scholarships etc.

Mike

MikeB4

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#2013213 10-May-2018 10:43

networkn:

MikeB4:

The research companies have very strict scripts for their interviewers to follow and how they are to fulfill their sampling and in the most part the results are good. That's not saying people will like the result and how one feels about the accuracy depends where one falls in the result.

I have in the fringe with market research companies, I can assure you that there is some fiddling going on the back end depending on what the client wants to see too.

If the client wants results to show a particular thing, that's what the results will show.

It's a lot harder to get a specific bent on results if the sizes are larger.

As I said earlier in this thread my wife worked for a research company I have seen first hand how it's done, but I guess folks believe what they will. Not really interested in a debate over it.

networkn

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#2013218 10-May-2018 10:47

MikeB4:

As I said earlier in this thread my wife worked for a research company I have seen first hand how it's done, but I guess folks believe what they will. Not really interested in a debate over it.

Cmon Mike, this is getting old. I also worked on the fringe, I have some experience and MY experience doesn't reflect yours. YOUR Experience may be valid, but mine is too. It's therefore not possible to state categorically that all research is conducted perfectly.

rjt123

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#2013228 10-May-2018 10:54

networkn:

MikeB4:

The research companies have very strict scripts for their interviewers to follow and how they are to fulfill their sampling and in the most part the results are good. That's not saying people will like the result and how one feels about the accuracy depends where one falls in the result.

I have in the fringe with market research companies, I can assure you that there is some fiddling going on the back end depending on what the client wants to see too.

If the client wants results to show a particular thing, that's what the results will show.

It's a lot harder to get a specific bent on results if the sizes are larger.

There are ways to get the results you want without having to fiddle the figures. Imagine this sceript:

Interviewer: "have you seen or read anything in the news about the CEOs of large companies earning multi-million dollar salaries"

Respondent:"umm.... yep"

Interviewer: "do you think that people in the top income bracket should be paying more tax to help overcome problems like homelessness and child poverty" (if they're really good they put in all the right emotions to tug at your heartstrings...)

And hey presto! Statistical results say 87% of the respondents think that NZ'ers should pay more tax.... Not hard, totally legitimate but exactly the result you want.

MikeAqua

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#2013234 10-May-2018 11:00

MikeB4:

The research companies have very strict scripts for their interviewers to follow and how they are to fulfill their sampling and in the most part the results are good. That's not saying people will like the result and how one feels about the accuracy depends where one falls in the result.

My objection is more fundamental than that.

Deriving a margin of error from a normal curve for data that is non-parametric in nature is mathematically absurd.

Mike

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