Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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#2030500 6-Jun-2018 09:22

tdgeek:

IIRC the budget showed that spending is fiscally conservative, being spread out. Conclusion is that the post is party based and not a discussion

Party based? Of course it is. Is this not what this thread is all about?

tdgeek:

Ok, keep the charity at home, we dont need schools and hospitals? You earn a salary to manage your life at home, the Govt, whoever they are, earn a salary also by way of generally Income Tax and GST to manage the country. You seem to be confusing the two, or wanting the Govt function to just give you money

We talking about increased taxes here. Nothing wrong with paying taxes to sustain basic things like schools, hospitals, and infrastructure. Thats why we pay them.

Where is the boundary, and how much tax is enough? We could go to a 100% tax rate and have excellent schools/welfare/health etc..

IMO we have a serious overtaxed problem when middle class people start living close to "poverty". People with jobs that are battling to make ends meet, battling to pay their bills. These are the people that are getting hurt the most under this new government.

GV27

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#2030502 6-Jun-2018 09:24

tdgeek:

Ok, keep the charity at home, we dont need schools and hospitals? You earn a salary to manage your life at home, the Govt, whoever they are, earn a salary also by way of generally Income Tax and GST to manage the country. You seem to be confusing the two, or wanting the Govt function to just give you money

Has anyone said we don't need schools or hospitals? You keep acting like we're saying the state should be totally dismantled like you dissolve a Trust.

If the Govt is 'earning' money then it should be held to the same performance standards that I am as an employee. I think you'll find a better analogy is that the Govt siphons money out of my paycheque. The only person 'earning' here is me.

I am merely asking the Govt to act in a manner that is consistent with its own arguments instead of giving out freebies to people it wants votes from at the expense of others. If student loan debt is bad, then fine. Give people with existing student loan debt some relief. But don't ask them to underwrite free education for everyone else while giving them nothing in return.

tdgeek

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#2030505 6-Jun-2018 09:29

Wiggum:

tdgeek:

IIRC the budget showed that spending is fiscally conservative, being spread out. Conclusion is that the post is party based and not a discussion

Party based? Of course it is. Is this not what this thread is all about?

tdgeek:

Ok, keep the charity at home, we dont need schools and hospitals? You earn a salary to manage your life at home, the Govt, whoever they are, earn a salary also by way of generally Income Tax and GST to manage the country. You seem to be confusing the two, or wanting the Govt function to just give you money

We talking about increased taxes here. Nothing wrong with paying taxes to sustain basic things like schools, hospitals, and infrastructure. Thats why we pay them.

Where is the boundary, and how much tax is enough? We could go to a 100% tax rate and have excellent schools/welfare/health etc..

IMO we have a serious overtaxed problem when middle class people start living close to "poverty". People with jobs that are battling to make ends meet, battling to pay their bills. These are the people that are getting hurt the most under this new government.

100% tax rate, that's silly. We are under taxed when for some reason we have sectors that are woefully underfunded. Yet we want to give tax cuts to everyone. Your answer is just massive tax cuts, thats it. Ok.

Fred99

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#2030507 6-Jun-2018 09:31

Wiggum:

IMO we have a serious overtaxed problem when middle class people start living close to "poverty". People with jobs that are battling to make ends meet, battling to pay their bills. These are the people that are getting hurt the most under this new government.

Actually if they've got families, then (income) tax isn't a burden. Conservatives keep reminding that with WFF, most of the income tax burden is on high income earners.

tdgeek

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#2030508 6-Jun-2018 09:32

GV27:

tdgeek:

Ok, keep the charity at home, we dont need schools and hospitals? You earn a salary to manage your life at home, the Govt, whoever they are, earn a salary also by way of generally Income Tax and GST to manage the country. You seem to be confusing the two, or wanting the Govt function to just give you money

Has anyone said we don't need schools or hospitals? You keep acting like we're saying the state should be totally dismantled like you dissolve a Trust.

If the Govt is 'earning' money then it should be held to the same performance standards that I am as an employee. I think you'll find a better analogy is that the Govt siphons money out of my paycheque. The only person 'earning' here is me.

I am merely asking the Govt to act in a manner that is consistent with its own arguments instead of giving out freebies to people it wants votes from at the expense of others. If student loan debt is bad, then fine. Give people with existing student loan debt some relief. But don't ask them to underwrite free education for everyone else while giving them nothing in return.

I never said we dont want schools or hospitals. It seems some here place them well behind personal tax cuts.

I agree with this giving out freebies to people it wants votes from at the expense of others.

Wiggum

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#2030509 6-Jun-2018 09:36

GV27:

tdgeek:

Ok, keep the charity at home, we dont need schools and hospitals? You earn a salary to manage your life at home, the Govt, whoever they are, earn a salary also by way of generally Income Tax and GST to manage the country. You seem to be confusing the two, or wanting the Govt function to just give you money

Has anyone said we don't need schools or hospitals? You keep acting like we're saying the state should be totally dismantled like you dissolve a Trust.

He is refuting arguments that were never made, "we dont need schools and hospitals!", " we should not pay tax" . In otherwords setting up a strawman. Don't bite.

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tdgeek

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#2030512 6-Jun-2018 09:37

Wiggum:

IMO we have a serious overtaxed problem when middle class people start living close to "poverty". People with jobs that are battling to make ends meet, battling to pay their bills. These are the people that are getting hurt the most under this new government.

What has happened in just over 6 months that has suddenly put these people under financial stress? I dont see tax hikes across the board in the last 8 months, nor rising interest rates. I do see high mortgages though..... You may need to reassess whose Govt is causing the hurting. This Govt might well do that, but it hasnt yet, so something else has suddenly and strangely appeared out of the blue to hurt these people since the election. IMHO the current housing crisis is the cause, rents and mortgage payments

Wiggum

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#2030516 6-Jun-2018 09:40

tdgeek:

Wiggum:

tdgeek:

IIRC the budget showed that spending is fiscally conservative, being spread out. Conclusion is that the post is party based and not a discussion

Party based? Of course it is. Is this not what this thread is all about?

tdgeek:

Ok, keep the charity at home, we dont need schools and hospitals? You earn a salary to manage your life at home, the Govt, whoever they are, earn a salary also by way of generally Income Tax and GST to manage the country. You seem to be confusing the two, or wanting the Govt function to just give you money

We talking about increased taxes here. Nothing wrong with paying taxes to sustain basic things like schools, hospitals, and infrastructure. Thats why we pay them.

Where is the boundary, and how much tax is enough? We could go to a 100% tax rate and have excellent schools/welfare/health etc..

IMO we have a serious overtaxed problem when middle class people start living close to "poverty". People with jobs that are battling to make ends meet, battling to pay their bills. These are the people that are getting hurt the most under this new government.

100% tax rate, that's silly. We are under taxed when for some reason we have sectors that are woefully underfunded. Yet we want to give tax cuts to everyone. Your answer is just massive tax cuts, thats it. Ok.

How much tax is enough then? And who should be paying it? I'm not looking for answers like high enough so we have good health care/welfare etc.. I'm looking for a tax rate. For middle class people that earn an average wage, how much tax should they pay?

tdgeek

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#2030517 6-Jun-2018 09:40

Wiggum:

GV27:

tdgeek:

Ok, keep the charity at home, we dont need schools and hospitals? You earn a salary to manage your life at home, the Govt, whoever they are, earn a salary also by way of generally Income Tax and GST to manage the country. You seem to be confusing the two, or wanting the Govt function to just give you money

Has anyone said we don't need schools or hospitals? You keep acting like we're saying the state should be totally dismantled like you dissolve a Trust.

He is refuting arguments that was never made, "we dont need schools and hospitals!", " we should not pay tax" . In otherwords setting up a strawman. Don't bite.

Rubbish. Learn to debate or don't bother. Im out of here, you can go on pretending to debate, but as is patently obvious, your comments are nothing to do with Govt spending, its just ranting, like the silly tax cut thread

Ciao

GV27

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#2030522 6-Jun-2018 09:44

tdgeek:

I never said we dont want schools or hospitals. It seems some here place them well behind personal tax cuts.

I agree with this giving out freebies to people it wants votes from at the expense of others.

I would say that's a logical result of a middle-class squeeze. People in what would have professions that allowed for a comfortable life (think accountants, marketers, white collar workers etc) now struggle to pay rent and save enough for a house deposit.

It's also confusing as health inflation is rampant and Labour is ideologically opposed to measuring outcomes for spending in Health and Education.

People aren't unreasonable. They want nurses and teachers to be paid more. They get annoyed when people act like only nurses and teachers struggle to make ends meet, even with base salaries that exceed their own by tens of thousands.

Wiggum

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#2030523 6-Jun-2018 09:44

tdgeek:

IMHO the current housing crisis is the cause, rents and mortgage payments

Bingo we agree on something.

I do believe this government is responsible for the new rates increases and new petrol levies. This goverment has done nothing to stop these rate increases. Have yours gone up? Now imagine if you were on an average wage? If we have a housing crisis the last thing we should be doing is increasing rates.

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rjt123

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#2030559 6-Jun-2018 10:07

I think it can be summarised by the acknowledgement that living costs in Auckland are too high. Decentralization will fix the bulk of it easy fix. Forget WFF, tax cuts, underfunding.

Wiggum

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#2030561 6-Jun-2018 10:10

GV27:

If the Govt is 'earning' money then it should be held to the same performance standards that I am as an employee. I think you'll find a better analogy is that the Govt siphons money out of my paycheque. The only person 'earning' here is me.

I am merely asking the Govt to act in a manner that is consistent with its own arguments instead of giving out freebies to people it wants votes from at the expense of others. If student loan debt is bad, then fine. Give people with existing student loan debt some relief. But don't ask them to underwrite free education for everyone else while giving them nothing in return.

You should join the NZ taxpayers Union. There is lots of information on their website about useless spending that we as taxpayers are funding.

Edit: Removed link in case it gets me in trouble. Google it.

rjt123

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#2030774 6-Jun-2018 13:03

Taxes are only 'too high' wheen you're not getting good value for the money.

For example...

https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/104412552/auckland-light-rail-would-be-one-of-the-slowest-public-transport-airport-links-in-the-world

rjt123

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#2030777 6-Jun-2018 13:06

And that decision was made by the same government who also made this decision:

Oil and Gas ban likely to increase emissions.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/06/05/113361/ban-likely-to-increase-emissions

Sometimes you wonder if they've already legalized cannabis in the beehive?

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