Bombing at Manchester concert, 19 dead

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Forums › Politics › Bombing at Manchester concert, 19 dead

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Awrrr
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#1795771 7-Jun-2017 10:02

surfisup1000:

We do agree on some things I see.

We sure don't agree on this. Where do get this rubbish from? Do you have a source or did you just make it up? This is just a fear-mongering rerun of the 'yellow peril' BS of a hundred years ago. Now you are the one who should bury your head in shame for propagating this crap.

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Rikkitic

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#1795778 7-Jun-2017 10:11

Geektastic: Winston Churchill, 1899

Just because Churchill was a hero during WWII does not mean he wasn't a bigoted, racist, colonel blimp imperialist in earlier years. Quoting his wildly inaccurate 19th century views doesn't impress me at all. He also seems to have overlooked the well-known fact that the followers of Mohammed kept science alive during the dark years that so-called christians were eating dirt and burning heretics.

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Geektastic

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#1795811 7-Jun-2017 10:53

Rikkitic:

Geektastic: Winston Churchill, 1899

Just because Churchill was a hero during WWII does not mean he wasn't a bigoted, racist, colonel blimp imperialist in earlier years. Quoting his wildly inaccurate 19th century views doesn't impress me at all. He also seems to have overlooked the well-known fact that the followers of Mohammed kept science alive during the dark years that so-called christians were eating dirt and burning heretics.

I see nothing racist in that quote.

frankv

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#1795814 7-Jun-2017 10:58

shk292:

frankv:

Each time there's another restriction on our lives to "combat terrorism", we lose and ISIS wins. And the government wins, because those restrictions make it easier for the government to control the populace.

That makes you sound very anti-government. I've served in the armed forces of democratic governments all my adult life and I think they're generally a good thing. So for me, "government wins" generally means "society wins". That doesn't mean I'm for any restriction that a government might dream up, and a restriction on eg encrypted communications would worry me (as well as being technically very difficult). But this knee-jerk aversion to "the government", especially when that govt is right of centre, is not something I have much time for.

I don't think I'm anti-government. I agree that they're generally a good thing. But I *am* government-sceptical.

Governments, democratic, socialist, or otherwise, are in fact run and controlled by the rich and powerful, as far as possible for the benefit of the rich and powerful. Inevitably, their purpose is to set up and maintain rules and systems which limit the sharing of power and wealth. (The American Presidency is a good example; the systems prevent anyone who is not an insider from becoming POTUS. You might argue that Trump is an exception, but look at who is behind him; Roger Stone, Robert Mercer, Peter Thiel).

So, we citizens need to be continually on our guard... any change which hasn't been forced on the government by a groundswell of public pressure is likely to be good for the few and bad for the public. Any facile "we need to control the people to combat [threat]" is likely to have bad consequences for most of us.

Wiggum

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#1795817 7-Jun-2017 11:02

Geektastic:

Rikkitic:

Geektastic: Winston Churchill, 1899

Just because Churchill was a hero during WWII does not mean he wasn't a bigoted, racist, colonel blimp imperialist in earlier years. Quoting his wildly inaccurate 19th century views doesn't impress me at all. He also seems to have overlooked the well-known fact that the followers of Mohammed kept science alive during the dark years that so-called christians were eating dirt and burning heretics.

I see nothing racist in that quote.

Nor do I.

Some food for thought on the topic at hand

Geektastic

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#1795819 7-Jun-2017 11:05

Wiggum:

Geektastic:

Rikkitic:

Geektastic: Winston Churchill, 1899

Just because Churchill was a hero during WWII does not mean he wasn't a bigoted, racist, colonel blimp imperialist in earlier years. Quoting his wildly inaccurate 19th century views doesn't impress me at all. He also seems to have overlooked the well-known fact that the followers of Mohammed kept science alive during the dark years that so-called christians were eating dirt and burning heretics.

I see nothing racist in that quote.

Nor do I.

Some food for thought on the topic at hand

That's a bit like the infamous "NZ Road Tollathon" we are subjected to every public holiday period!

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frankv

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#1795849 7-Jun-2017 11:13

Wiggum:

Cherry-picked BS... you could equally set up a scorecard for

Sts. Sarbelius & Barbea Holy Day Kill-a-thon

Muslims killed by Islamophobes: Attacks:1 Kills: 6

Quebec Mosque Shooting Kills at Least 6 -- Jan 29 2017

Rikkitic

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#1795850 7-Jun-2017 11:13

Geektastic:

I see nothing racist in that quote.

"I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place."
Churchill to Palestine Royal Commission, 1937

Shall I go on? Plenty more where that came from.

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surfisup1000

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#1795851 7-Jun-2017 11:14

nakedmolerat:
gzt:
surfisup1000: [Muslim percentage theory]

Except that many of those places do not have the problems your theory predicts. It's entirely bogus.

He was just quoting whaleoil. Just like a typical Trump supporter - they swallow everything that sounds good to them. There is no need for basis or fact.

Can't tolerate Cameron Slater . Trump is a moron, but unlike you I can understand why people voted for him. So, that would make you wrong.

But I do believe the more islamic people we have in NZ the more likely we are to have a local terrorist attack.

Wiggum

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#1795877 7-Jun-2017 11:21

Rikkitic:

Geektastic:

I see nothing racist in that quote.

"I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place."
Churchill to Palestine Royal Commission, 1937

Shall I go on? Plenty more where that came from.

Maybe he shared the same thinking as Darwin himself?

“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break will then be rendered wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state as we may hope, than the Caucasian and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as at present between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.”

- Charles Darwin

MikeB4

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#1795878 7-Jun-2017 11:21

Rikkitic:

Geektastic:

I see nothing racist in that quote.

"I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place."
Churchill to Palestine Royal Commission, 1937

Shall I go on? Plenty more where that came from.

The lives that are being taken now are being taken in 2017 not 1937. Sir Winston Churchill was no saint and he cost many New Zealand lives that does not alter that fact that today it is not Sir Winston Churchill that is costing lives, it is extremist that say they are doing it in the name of Islam, not all Islam but in the name of Islam all the same.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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Rikkitic

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#1795880 7-Jun-2017 11:33

Wiggum:

Maybe he shared the same thinking as Darwin himself?

? What does Darwin have to do with anything? We were talking about Churchill.

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Rikkitic

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#1795881 7-Jun-2017 11:35

MikeB4:

The lives that are being taken now are being taken in 2017 not 1937. Sir Winston Churchill was no saint and he cost many New Zealand lives that does not alter that fact that today it is not Sir Winston Churchill that is costing lives, it is extremist that say they are doing it in the name of Islam, not all Islam but in the name of Islam all the same.

I was not the one who introduced Churchill into the discussion. I was merely responding to some nonsense with some information.

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frankv

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#1795883 7-Jun-2017 11:41

MikeB4:

The lives that are being taken now are being taken in 2017 not 1937. Sir Winston Churchill was no saint and he cost many New Zealand lives that does not alter that fact that today it is not Sir Winston Churchill that is costing lives, it is extremist that say they are doing it in the name of Islam, not all Islam but in the name of Islam all the same.

The following from Wikipedia.

Jeffery sent him with fifteen scouts to explore the Mamund Valley; while on reconnaissance, they encountered an enemy tribe, dismounted from their horses and opened fire.

This is of course about Churchill. Some people might characterise this as a bunch of Christians going to someone's neighbourhood and killing locals... not so different from today's terrorists. Is it OK because it was 120 years ago? Or is it OK to do that in the name of Her Royal Britannic Majesty?

MikeB4

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#1795887 7-Jun-2017 11:50

frankv:

MikeB4:

The lives that are being taken now are being taken in 2017 not 1937. Sir Winston Churchill was no saint and he cost many New Zealand lives that does not alter that fact that today it is not Sir Winston Churchill that is costing lives, it is extremist that say they are doing it in the name of Islam, not all Islam but in the name of Islam all the same.

The following from Wikipedia.

Jeffery sent him with fifteen scouts to explore the Mamund Valley; while on reconnaissance, they encountered an enemy tribe, dismounted from their horses and opened fire.

This is of course about Churchill. Some people might characterise this as a bunch of Christians going to someone's neighbourhood and killing locals... not so different from today's terrorists. Is it OK because it was 120 years ago? Or is it OK to do that in the name of Her Royal Britannic Majesty?

As I said, Sir Winston Churchill was not saint and his actions could fill another thread to rival that of Trump along with the actions of all the colonial powers. My point was that the lives being lost today are in 2017 and not 1917, 1817 or earlier. Neither side can claim cause being that which happened in the past or use it justify or deny just cause.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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