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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections
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darylblake
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  #1708464 24-Jan-2017 09:47
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PaulBags: Bill English wants to continue pushing for the TPPA with the remaining countries anyway, so we still face IP law changes and ISDS.

 

Thats just stupid, no point giving up sovereign rights. Bill probably feels a bit embarrassed this has fallen apart. Just negotiate trading deals with Japan/Canada/Mexico/Malaysia etc individually. It also gives you greater flexibility. Hey it has worked well for China. Anyhow this is getting slightly of topic. 

 

I read China is talking about investing in Mexico now.

 

And back to Obama/Trump. When Obama rules by executive order (which he did in his second term), it means that it is extremely easy to overrule an executive order. Which is why Trump has been able to reverse so much of these quickly. If Obama had gotten these through the house of representatives & congress, then Trump would not be able exercise this power to overturn them.

 

 

networkn
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  #1708465 24-Jan-2017 09:47
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PaulBags: Bill English wants to continue pushing for the TPPA with the remaining countries anyway, so we still face IP law changes and ISDS.

 

 

 

He might as well be pushing jelly up him with a sharp knife!

 

Most the countries in the TPP need the USA at least or in most cases far more than NZ, I believe, and as such, they will be worried about repercussions from Trumps administration if they go end around. 

tdgeek
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  #1708483 24-Jan-2017 09:55
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darylblake:

 

PaulBags: Bill English wants to continue pushing for the TPPA with the remaining countries anyway, so we still face IP law changes and ISDS.

 

Thats just stupid, no point giving up sovereign rights. Bill probably feels a bit embarrassed this has fallen apart. Just negotiate trading deals with Japan/Canada/Mexico/Malaysia etc individually. It also gives you greater flexibility. Hey it has worked well for China. Anyhow this is getting slightly of topic. 

 

I read China is talking about investing in Mexico now.

 

And back to Obama/Trump. When Obama rules by executive order (which he did in his second term), it means that it is extremely easy to overrule an executive order. Which is why Trump has been able to reverse so much of these quickly. If Obama had gotten these through the house of representatives & congress, then Trump would not be able exercise this power to overturn them.

 

 

 

 

Who were Republican controlled. Damn stupid system, the leader gets a mandate and cannot act on it

Fred99
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  #1708487 24-Jan-2017 09:55
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PaulBags: Bill English wants to continue pushing for the TPPA with the remaining countries anyway, so we still face IP law changes and ISDS.

 

 

 

With the USA out, there's no reason for NZ - or AFAICT any of the other signatories - to preserve the IP provisions within the TPP.  They were unpopular, not needed except to placate the USA.

 

I don't have a particular problem with ISDS.  The argument that it undermines sovereignty is a red-herring. 

networkn
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  #1708488 24-Jan-2017 09:57
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tdgeek:

 

darylblake:

 

PaulBags: Bill English wants to continue pushing for the TPPA with the remaining countries anyway, so we still face IP law changes and ISDS.

 

Thats just stupid, no point giving up sovereign rights. Bill probably feels a bit embarrassed this has fallen apart. Just negotiate trading deals with Japan/Canada/Mexico/Malaysia etc individually. It also gives you greater flexibility. Hey it has worked well for China. Anyhow this is getting slightly of topic. 

 

I read China is talking about investing in Mexico now.

 

And back to Obama/Trump. When Obama rules by executive order (which he did in his second term), it means that it is extremely easy to overrule an executive order. Which is why Trump has been able to reverse so much of these quickly. If Obama had gotten these through the house of representatives & congress, then Trump would not be able exercise this power to overturn them.

 

 

 

 

Who were Republican controlled. Damn stupid system, the leader gets a mandate and cannot act on it

 

 

It's a two-edged sword, but the republicans have had quite a good run for a long time. They obviously represent what most (voting) Americans want. I would normally lean right toward Republicans in general principle, but in the US right now I'd be a Democrat because of the horrifying way the Republicans act a fair amount of the time.

Fred99
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  #1708495 24-Jan-2017 10:04
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networkn:

 

They obviously represent what most (voting) Americans want. 

 

 

You keep slipping that in - and need to be reminded that Trump did NOT win the popular vote.

Fred99
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  #1708501 24-Jan-2017 10:19
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Part of the reason why science will be under attack under Republican rule:

 

(Pew survey - 2009)

 

 

It's also further evidence of the deep divisions within the USA.

networkn
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  #1708504 24-Jan-2017 10:27
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Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

They obviously represent what most (voting) Americans want. 

 

 

You keep slipping that in - and need to be reminded that Trump did NOT win the popular vote.

 

 

You keep saying that, but the reality is, both parties use the same system and have the same opportunities to gain votes and seats in the house and senate.

 

Let's also be honest, you wouldn't be any more happy even if he had won the popular vote. 

Fred99
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  #1708516 24-Jan-2017 10:52
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networkn:

 

Fred99:

 

networkn:

 

They obviously represent what most (voting) Americans want. 

 

 

You keep slipping that in - and need to be reminded that Trump did NOT win the popular vote.

 

 

You keep saying that, but the reality is, both parties use the same system and have the same opportunities to gain votes and seats in the house and senate.

 

Let's also be honest, you wouldn't be any more happy even if he had won the popular vote. 

 

 

OK - let's be honest.  Claiming that "they obviously represent what most (voting) Americans want" is definitely not the truth.

 

Had Trump won the popular vote (as a hypothetical statement), extending that to claim you know if I would or would not have been "more happy" is also not true - as in fact you do not know.

 

It's an ad-hominem argument which is against FUG.

networkn
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  #1708542 24-Jan-2017 11:14
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OK - let's be honest.  Claiming that "they obviously represent what most (voting) Americans want" is definitely not the truth.

 

 

Sure it is, the House and Senate are elected positions and the college does still reflect the will of the people even if it is to a lesser degree. He didn't win the popular vote, on this we agree.

 

I don't see us agreeing on this.

 

 

 

 

Had Trump won the popular vote (as a hypothetical statement), extending that to claim you know if I would or would not have been "more happy" is also not true - as in fact you do not know.

 

 

I surmised it, however, I can see it came across as a statement of fact. I apologise for the way I phrased it.

 

It's interesting to me you didn't just deny it or confirm it. Also interesting you chose to ignore my earlier calling out of you insulting Trumps personal appearance, something you have been vocal in criticizing the guy for yourself. 

 

I am not a Trump fan, but I do think criticism of him needs to be tempered with a little .. balance and perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

darylblake
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  #1708551 24-Jan-2017 11:24
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Fact: If you take California out of the mix, Trump actually won the popular vote. This is why Trump never bothered campaigning in California, he knew he was gonna lose it, and he didn't care by what margin. As long as he won enough of the other states to win electoral college.

dclegg
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  #1708555 24-Jan-2017 11:25
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freitasm:

 

I still have an old (expired) Brazilian passport with a H1B visa - issued in early 90s while I worked for a US company. Good times. Lucky I'm not under investigation by Trump officials for being a "foreigner taking American jobs" tongue-out

 

 

 

 

You say that in jest, but with Trump's isolationist policies, this is a real concern of mine.

 

 

 

I've been contracting full-time to US companies for nearly 10 years. I worry that he may impose some sort of monetary disincentive that no longer makes me attractive to my current employer. I've been with them for just over 3 years, so I'm hoping my domain knowledge, and the relatively niche programming language being used, is enough to ensure my job security. But it's a concern nevertheless.

Fred99
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  #1708557 24-Jan-2017 11:29
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You are beating around the bush defending your argument that:

 

"They obviously represent what most (voting) Americans want". Which is an absolutely untrue statement.

 

 

As for your use of "whataboutism" (by bringing in my post about Trumps yuge double chin) in an attempt to defend your ad-hominem argument where you claim to know what's in my thoughts. Dishonest and irrelevant.

 

 

"Surmising" in that manner is the problem and is what made it ad-hominem.

 

 

"Let's also be honest, you wouldn't be any more happy even if he had won the popular vote"

 

 

(Edit) I see you've edited re "surmising" - and thank you for the apology - accepted.

 

 

 

 

freitasm
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  #1708559 24-Jan-2017 11:31
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It is not about you two, it's about Trump. /EOM




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networkn
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  #1708560 24-Jan-2017 11:35
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darylblake:

 

Fact: If you take California out of the mix, Trump actually won the popular vote. This is why Trump never bothered campaigning in California, he knew he was gonna lose it, and he didn't care by what margin. As long as he won enough of the other states to win electoral college.

 

 

Yes, which is why I say he was Smarter than Clinton. He focused on the College votes in the last 5 months of his campaign. Clinton overestimated her ability to win as I think most people did.

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