NZ Election 2020

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#2524502 17-Jul-2020 08:05

tdgeek:

Well, something has to change. The benefit now is we have a real need to get workers working, whereas before it was purely political

A huge issue is now a lot of these mega projects don't actually suck up the same numbers of workers they used to, thanks to specialised equipment and heavy machinery. But we still need the productivity gains down the line and they'll cost too much if we dither on making a start (see: CRL).

So infrastructure is not the depression-busting job scheme it once was, even once the projects actually get started.

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#2524503 17-Jul-2020 08:11

GV27:

tdgeek:

Well, something has to change. The benefit now is we have a real need to get workers working, whereas before it was purely political

A huge issue is now a lot of these mega projects don't actually suck up the same numbers of workers they used to, thanks to specialised equipment and heavy machinery. But we still need the productivity gains down the line and they'll cost too much if we dither on making a start (see: CRL).

So infrastructure is not the depression-busting job scheme it once was, even once the projects actually get started.

Ok, makes sense. Be useful to suck upa few unemployeds, where the Govt can support training into the more skilled parts of road making. Yeah proably not much there but every bit helps. GR stated a while back that they will target the higher labour roles/shovel ready to get more benefit

GV27

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#2524595 17-Jul-2020 11:05

National infra announcement: A big old spend up. Tunnels, roads, busways, rail to the airport, third and fourth mains... you name it, it's there. Unless it's light rail, that's gone totally.

tdgeek

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#2524610 17-Jul-2020 11:12

GV27:

National infra announcement: A big old spend up. Tunnels, roads, busways, rail to the airport, third and fourth mains... you name it, it's there. Unless it's light rail, that's gone totally.

Looks like LR was not viable/worth it if no party gives it any traction?

gzt

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#2524616 17-Jul-2020 11:16

Roading infrastructure as a stimulus has a lot of problems. It's a useful thing to do, on the other hand I think you'll find there is a significant proportion of offshore labour and expertise involved. I hope the government has some better ideas to add.

Personally I'd like to see some stimulus that invests in the sustainable future of work and industry in New Zealand instead of the traditional import/export thinking. I'm not aware of current Green Party policies in this area but it's the kind of thinking they tend to do. If Labour wins another term I'd like to see some more action in those areas.

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#2524626 17-Jul-2020 11:29

gzt: Roading infrastructure as a stimulus has a lot of problems. It's a useful thing to do, on the other hand I think you'll find there is a significant proportion of offshore labour and expertise involved. I hope the government has some better ideas to add.

Personally I'd like to see some stimulus that invests in the sustainable future of work and industry in New Zealand instead of the traditional import/export thinking. I'm not aware of current Green Party policies in this area but it's the kind of thinking they tend to do. If Labour wins another term I'd like to see some more action in those areas.

Roads

They have congestion issues. We can save fuel usage and time. The labour is already here, we wont be importing people to drive rollers and trucks, nor importing heavy machinery its here. If we import experts to project manage thats no issue, but I doubt we do that for motorways etc a lot

"invests in the sustainable future of work and industry in New Zealand" that's a lot of rhetoric, thats what political parties say, its meaningless. What exactly are the specific things you refer to??

GV27

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#2524628 17-Jul-2020 11:35

tdgeek:

GV27:

National infra announcement: A big old spend up. Tunnels, roads, busways, rail to the airport, third and fourth mains... you name it, it's there. Unless it's light rail, that's gone totally.

Looks like LR was not viable/worth it if no party gives it any traction?

Not palatable to National's voter base. But still the only real solution for getting the number of buses off the road we need to keep Auckland's central city moving (busways to the Northwest and South will only make things worse) unless you plan on running heavy rail everywhere (which is expensive to tunnel and impossible to cut surface corridors through in a built-up city).

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tdgeek

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#2524639 17-Jul-2020 11:45

GV27:

Not palatable to National's voter base. But still the only real solution for getting the number of buses off the road we need to keep Auckland's central city moving (busways to the Northwest and South will only make things worse) unless you plan on running heavy rail everywhere (which is expensive to tunnel and impossible to cut surface corridors through in a built-up city).

I'd do road widening and buses myself. Cheaper to do roads, cheaper to do buses, and more flexible

GV27

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#2524641 17-Jul-2020 11:49

tdgeek:

I'd do road widening and buses myself. Cheaper to do roads, cheaper to do buses, and more flexible

The problem Auckland has is there will be too many buses - the congestion of buses in the CBD is what started the Council down the light rail route to begin with!

Fred99

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#2524646 17-Jul-2020 11:53

So they've committed how to spend the unallocated Covid recovery money that was unallocated specifically because the future economic impact of the pandemic couldn't be known then - and still can't be.

Very stupid - but not surprising in the least.

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#2524647 17-Jul-2020 11:55

GV27:

tdgeek:

I'd do road widening and buses myself. Cheaper to do roads, cheaper to do buses, and more flexible

The problem Auckland has is there will be too many buses - the congestion of buses in the CBD is what started the Council down the light rail route to begin with!

Buses and trains are a similar width. Where the LR track goes, thats now a bus lane. If its quiet one bus per hour if its busy one after the other like a train. If AKL developpement evolves in such a way that the train is left demand stranded and needed elsewhere, buses can adapt better to that. the LR option HAS and MUST be right otherwose it may end up a great option in the wrong place

gzt

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#2524649 17-Jul-2020 12:00

tdgeek: "invests in the sustainable future of work and industry in New Zealand" that's a lot of rhetoric, thats what political parties say, its meaningless. What exactly are the specific things you refer to??

Yeah I guess I'm saying I'd like to see a bit more vision coming through.

tdgeek

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#2524652 17-Jul-2020 12:06

gzt:
tdgeek: "invests in the sustainable future of work and industry in New Zealand" that's a lot of rhetoric, thats what political parties say, its meaningless. What exactly are the specific things you refer to??

Yeah I guess I'm saying I'd like to see a bit more vision coming through.

Understand that, I just like to see hard stuff. Actual projects with actual timelines and actual benefits. I dont want to read "we will grow the economy by develeoping the economy for hard working Kiwis" Sounds great but its just a sentence

tdgeek

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#2524665 17-Jul-2020 12:34

I thought there were to be no tax increases?

"National is also promising not to increase fuel taxes in its first term"

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/second-auckland-harbour-crossing-promised-in-national-s-31-billion-plan-to-smash-congestion.html

GV27

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#2524681 17-Jul-2020 12:46

tdgeek:

Buses and trains are a similar width. Where the LR track goes, thats now a bus lane. If its quiet one bus per hour if its busy one after the other like a train. If AKL developpement evolves in such a way that the train is left demand stranded and needed elsewhere, buses can adapt better to that. the LR option HAS and MUST be right otherwose it may end up a great option in the wrong place

The NW busway will almost certainly be future-proofed for light rail, so that's something.

Interesting to note that they have given a firm commitment to a lot of rail stuff in there, extra mains and Southdown also hinted at - trying to court Winston's pro-rail voters, or Winston himself?

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