Ukraine War discussion

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#2881244 8-Mar-2022 16:07

freitasm:

Ok, I think the time has come to allow comparisons to WWII, Nazi, etc - some mentions already in this thread.

Russia anexing Crimea and the other regions don't sound too different than Hitler taking the Sudetenland in 1938 (thanks to Chamberlain who "didn't want a war") and no different than Hitler taking Austria (Anschluss 1938), then moving into Poland.

Putin is doing the same. He's taking land and saying it's their right. Not different than Hitler's territorial ambitions.

So yes, while Ukraine is not part of NATO, when does it have to be too bad for others to intervene?

I personally think not defending Ukraine is the same as Chamberlain giving away the Sudetenland.

Yep it's a case of history repeating itself, I read historians are comparing Putin's invasion of Ukraine to Hitler's invasion of Czechoslovakia or Poland.

The spanner in the works this time though is Russia's nuclear arsenal, which includes tactical nukes.

In one hypothetical scenario Russian forces mobilize within 48hrs, in 60hrs Russian tanks reach the Suwalki Gap cutting NATO off from the Baltics.

Putin then uses tactical nukes against NATO forces or strategic missiles to hit European cities in an attempt to force withdrawal or negotiation.

I think it's early days yet, the situation is is develping rapidly.

decibel

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#2881248 8-Mar-2022 16:16

K8Toledo:

In one hypothetical scenario Russian forces mobilize within 48hrs, in 60hrs Russian tanks reach the Suwalki Gap cutting NATO off from the Baltics.

Oh yes - Putin would love to have land access through to Kaliningrad.

kingdragonfly

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#2881309 8-Mar-2022 17:23

International Consortium of Investigative Journalists: How a network of enablers have helped Russia’s oligarchs hide their wealth abroad

Elites close to Vladimir Putin have funneled billions through tax havens to evade scrutiny and oversight. Lawyers, proxies and bankers across the world made it possible.

As Russian forces pour into Ukraine, Western authorities are beginning an unprecedented effort to identify and freeze assets held abroad by Russian oligarchs and others close to the regime.

By some estimates, close to 20% of the country’s wealth is stashed in offshore jurisdictions like Cyprus, the Seychelles, the British Virgin Islands — even the United States.

Money doesn’t just move and hide itself. The flight of Russia’s wealth has been supported by big banks and a global industry of professionals who specialize in providing rich clients with shell companies, trusts and other secretive vehicles.

For nearly a decade, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists has worked to unveil both the true owners of secretive entities and also the professionals who underpin the offshore economy. This reporting has triggered billions in recoveries, led to the collapse of business empires and prompted new transparency laws. But true systemic change has been slow in coming. Western authorities have largely turned a blind eye to the people and companies that keep the dark money system running.

Even now, the ENABLERS Act — which would require a broad range of professionals such as attorneys and art dealers to perform basic due diligence on their elite clients’ sources of wealth — remains stalled in the U.S. Congress.

So who are the enablers of the offshore system? They range from global law firms, like Baker McKenzie, an architect of the modern tax avoidance system, to tiny one-person operators working from Bermuda.
...

neb

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#2881315 8-Mar-2022 17:39

freitasm:
Ok, I think the time has come to allow comparisons to WWII, Nazi, etc - some mentions already in this thread.

In that case I can post this comment:

There's been all sorts of speculation about what the 'Z' means on Russian military vehicles, including guesses at various Russian words even though they're spelled with a З or a Ж and not a Z. However it's not meant to be a letter at all but a symbol, they just ran out of paint for the second half just as they've run out of fuel and food.

To see the full symbol that the Russian invasion is being run under, take a second Z, rotate it 90 degrees, and place it over the top of the first one.

freitasm

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Geekzone

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#2881319 8-Mar-2022 17:44

Yes, they are acting like fascists but the explanation is just at the level of QAnon.

neb

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#2881322 8-Mar-2022 17:49

freitasm:
Yes, they are acting like fascists but the explanation is just at the level of QAnon.

Oh, I wasn't proposing it as an actual explanation, more that since people are throwing out random ideas, here's my one to add to the mix.

It'd also probably make a powerful impact if Ukrainians changed the ones on captured Russian vehicles to that, another bit of the propaganda war that Russia would lose.

ezbee

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#2881335 8-Mar-2022 18:35

'Sorry to bother you': CNN obtains audio of Russians calling Ukrainian hotline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f-5bAy2En0

Ukrainian hotline to try to help Russian families if they have lost contact with their family in Russian military.
Seems Russia is very slow, or reluctant to advise on missing.

Bound together by loss caused by a callous dictator.

tdgeek

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#2881340 8-Mar-2022 18:51

Rikkitic:

The illiterate homeless alcoholic cat lady who lives in the sewer is a more accurate news source than Fox News.

Hmm, I agree sort of. Ive switched to and from from CNN to Fox and I find it fine. Same anti Putin pro Ukraine news but different guests and video.

Despite the extreme division, whether that be the US or globally, this conflict has been exceedingly united. The divided US or the divided globe. United. To me thats a good thing. Do I expect the united ness to endure? No. But at least the un-united now have a line. A common theme.

K8Toledo

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#2881341 8-Mar-2022 18:52

neb:
freitasm:

Ok, I think the time has come to allow comparisons to WWII, Nazi, etc - some mentions already in this thread.

In that case I can post this comment: There's been all sorts of speculation about what the 'Z' means on Russian military vehicles, including guesses at various Russian words even though they're spelled with a З or a Ж and not a Z. However it's not meant to be a letter at all but a symbol, they just ran out of paint for the second half just as they've run out of fuel and food. To see the full symbol that the Russian invasion is being run under, take a second Z, rotate it 90 degrees, and place it over the top of the first one.

We should probably avoid bringing conspiracy theories into the discussion.

From the New York Times:

The letter ‘Z’ has become a symbol for Russians who support the invasion of Ukraine

Critics on social media did not miss the opportunity to point out that Hitler mobilized thousands of black-shirted supporters, as well, and some manipulated the letter Z to make it resemble the Nazi swastika.

No doubt some of the displays reflected genuine support. On Saturday, for example, the Russian gymnast Ivan Kuliak wore a Z on his uniform at a competition in Qatar that also included Ukrainian gymnasts. The Russian head coach and some fellow Russian gymnasts publicly defended him, even as the sport’s international governing body opened a disciplinary proceeding.

The symbol has also been deployed as a threat: Anton Dolin, a prominent film critic who left Russia over his opposition to the war, posted a picture on Facebook of a giant white Z that someone had spray-painted on his apartment door, which he called an effort at intimidation.

Oddly for a nationalist symbol, the Z being used is the version from the Latin alphabet. The Russian version, from the Cyrillic alphabet, is more rounded, like a 3.

After weeks of speculation about what it meant, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Sunday that it came from the preposition “Za,” the first word in the Russian phrase “Za pobedu,” or “For victory.”

Edit: I replaced original NYT screenshot with text.

tdgeek

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#2881345 8-Mar-2022 19:01

K8Toledo:

Yep it's a case of history repeating itself, I read historians are comparing Putin's invasion of Ukraine to Hitler's invasion of Czechoslovakia or Poland.

The spanner in the works this time though is Russia's nuclear arsenal, which includes tactical nukes.

In one hypothetical scenario Russian forces mobilize within 48hrs, in 60hrs Russian tanks reach the Suwalki Gap cutting NATO off from the Baltics.

Putin then uses tactical nukes against NATO forces or strategic missiles to hit European cities in an attempt to force withdrawal or negotiation.

I think it's early days yet, the situation is is develping rapidly.

100%

On one theme how can this happen in 2022? It could be very similar to PRNK. Throw the threats, get sanctioned. Give back 2/3 of the threats, get oil and food

Putin is a step above that as he actually does have power aka sway, aka threat. Do normal people take the high road? Or does that mean more abuse as he has impunity? Next he will orchestrate a nuclear attack (fake) that gets the West's attention. This "might" just be another PRNK psychological action.

China has been silent as they know this is idiocracy from Russia, same with aligned India but less important. China and India prefer a strong Russia, but more so they prefer strong trade. Show me the money, $$$

tdgeek

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#2881346 8-Mar-2022 19:05

decibel:

Oh yes - Putin would love to have land access through to Kaliningrad.

He cannot govern Ukraine, its too big, too many people. He wants a land border down south. Crimea has a water issue, as the canal was blocked, not now. Kiev aka Kviv he wants that, he wants the south. That will do.

Now, he decrees he will allow a green evacuation area. Like he did before he bombed them. But he will be ok this time, as his evacuation green zone is Ukrainians green zoning to Russia and Belarus. W T F This "game" is pathetic, he was born in the wrong era

tdgeek

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#2881347 8-Mar-2022 19:07

neb:
freitasm:

Ok, I think the time has come to allow comparisons to WWII, Nazi, etc - some mentions already in this thread.

In that case I can post this comment: There's been all sorts of speculation about what the 'Z' means on Russian military vehicles, including guesses at various Russian words even though they're spelled with a З or a Ж and not a Z. However it's not meant to be a letter at all but a symbol, they just ran out of paint for the second half just as they've run out of fuel and food. To see the full symbol that the Russian invasion is being run under, take a second Z, rotate it 90 degrees, and place it over the top of the first one.

No idea but I know that Z is from Russia and V is from Belarus (I think)

Plus the vehicles are similar, thats the biggie.

tdgeek

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#2881350 8-Mar-2022 19:11

K8Toledo:

Ive read or heard that (the Z) , victory. Plus im SURE its also to delineate Russian/Belarusian/Ukrainian weaponry as they are similar, as all have USSR roots